no. dont bring it back.
However, let people trade loot freely. no arbitrary requirements for it needing to not be an upgrade first.
I mean you had the same issue with ML multiple items can drop and even things for classes you donât even have in the raid, but yes.
PLNR is the easy abbreviation for it instead of typing the whole thing out.
Assuming this was the case, and Blizzard decided to go this route. Where does it end? The month after this do we see threads about how all the people who received loot and didnât need it, gave all their loot to not me so its still not fair. Make all bosses drop a random piece of trade-able loot to every member of the raid on each boss fight.
In 6 years people will just jump through the portal, all bosses will die, and your character will walk out BiS in 16 slots. What a fun time that will be, but at least no one will complain. At least the 5 people who are left logged into the game.
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I donât know why you are arguing against an objectively better system compared to Master Looter that ticks all the boxes in positive side and functionality wise is identical with none of the downsides that the original had.
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Because people are people and they will always find something to complain about.
Secondary to that, Blizzard has a long track record of making good ideas into terrible functions for their subscribers.
I am not against the change you preposed. But to think it will come as the end all solution for everyone who dislikes things is⊠Optimistic.
I mean it breaks down into this
Pro ML: we canât move loot around in our team bring back ML because we are tired of not being able to move items in our group effectively to members that can better utilize it.
Anti ML: ML can be used abusively against people and has a long track record of doing so because people will use any leverage over another person that they can.
Pro ML: thatâs your problem not ours rEEeEEeEeeEe
Enter personal loot with no restrictions on trading
It allows groups to move loot around themselves with no issues. Thus solving the first problem.
It cannot be used to loot starve or force loot away from someone Wich means it cannot be used abusively with intentionally leveraging the system against another individual as they cannot take something already in your bags from you. Thus solving the second issue.
This is effectively perfect the only remaining thing seems to be this.
PRO ML: it fills all the functions I need it to but itâs not ML so⊠rEEeEEeEeeEe
What does this have to do with me saying that people do have the choice to use it or not use it? (if it came back similar to how it was in legion)
And even on its own as a statement you are crafting an impossible situation and one that I could mirror back to you just as easily.
Are you saying that no player loots a trinket or ring and then doesnât equip it in both slots and then wishes they could trade a second one of the identical item so they are unable to equip or trade it?
See how I can make up pointless scenarios too?
And I also have horroe stories of PL being so restrictive that we couldnât funnel loot to people even though we had groups of 5 spamming specific dungeons trying to get a trinket for a mate and it still wouldnât let us so people burnt out and quit. So what?
Also those horror stories are almost exclusively from content before PL was an option.
Yea itâs just worse with PL because necks and rings and capes are on all armour types loot tables thatâs all. Itâs a minor gripe about a system that I wouldnât mind at all and would very much prefer over what we have now though for sure.
Yes the only downside really that I can see is in super high end guilds where they will do full loot funnels per character to gear themselves for race to world first but honestly thatâs like at most 200 people that participate in that so who cares. They will always do degenerate stuff and tbh they would probably prefer that to what they had to do this tier anyway with bringing in viewers who could trade etc anyway.
Getting specific things like sylv daggers etc to drop in PL was a nightmare too so the odds of rare things like that should b elooked at too Imo but thatâs a different detate for a different day imo
I would be fine with ML because for me it is functionally the same.
If other people want plnr (ideally with the odds of common items tweaked a little) then Iâm 100% cool with that too.
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Different kind of backlash involved when MLing goes wrong.
I feel like weapons drop rates need to be upped in general because holy heck itâs battle for weapon drops all over again and sure they could lower ring and neck drops slightly but not too much
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Several issues being created by the ilvl restriction isnât them being the same issue.
The sea levels rising and wildlife extinction rates rising might both happen due to global warming, but they sure as hell arenât the same issue.
Yes, every most issues with personal loot exist because of the trade restrictions. Get rid of the trade restrictions and personal loot is fine.
However, that would effectively be the same as master looter for guilds, which is the reason why it wonât happen.
Also an issue that has nothing to do with the ilvl restriction: The abundance of rings, necklaces and cloaks. Hunter needs a weapon? Well said hunter has a 20% chance of receiving an item times a 1 in X chance, where X is the number of item drops the boss who drops the weapon has for them.
Rings, cloaks and necklaces? Anybody can loot them so theyâll drop a lot more with personal loot.
This isnât about people in pugs being scammed. This isnât about âtrials not receiving lootâ. Itâs about Blizzard not wanting people to have control over where an item goes, especially in guild runs.
Itâs also about Blizzard not wanting to put up with tickets regarding âXYZ STOLE MY LOOT!â because they needed to lay off 50% of their GMs to increase quarterly profits.
Hell, weâve had Guild Master Loot in legion, which then got removed because âtrials deserve loot as well and theyâre not getting it!â and letâs be real, nobody except the extremly gullible bought that reason.
In the end:
Thereâs no downside for pugs with giving us Guild Master Loot back and changing it to 100% of the group having to be in a guild.
Thereâs little downside for pugs with giving us unrestricted Personal Loot, namely âYou didnât trade me the item, get kicked!â
But neither of those different systems for loot distribution will ever happen. Iâm not sure whether itâs because Blizzard wants to make it difficult for RWF guilds, whether it is so that splits donât happen outside said RWF guilds or whether it is because Ion himself just hates Master Loot.
All I know is that Master Loot was my preferred option as a raider.
Never joined any of the âXYZ LOCKEDâ pugs, not even if it were for an item that I didnât need and I still believe that people who did were stupid for enabling this behaviour.
I main disc, my setbonus is pure trash, I wouldâve gladly traded several of my tier tokens, yet I couldnât.
Did I feel bad about getting items? No, but as a part of a guild who progresses as a group, I felt bad about our raidgroup not receiving a larger upgrade from a tier token.
In the end, thereâs better systems than personal loot.
I consider both unrestricted personal loot, aka no itemlevel restrictions, as well as Guild Master Loot with a 100% guild group as better systems.
Keep in mind, nobody is trying to get rid of personal loot, it will still be an option, but thereâd be additional options which, imo should be confirmed when entering the raid.
Iâd like to hear arguments against either of those two systems.
The first argument against unrestricted personal loot already came from myself, however I also believe the same argument works against personal loot with itemlevel restrictions, thus unrestricted personal loot would solve issues that personal loot have, but not create new ones.
As for guild master loot with a 100% guild group, thereâs obviously the âthe master looter is unfairâ argument, which is a more difficult discussion. Obviously thereâs the âdonât raid with guilds you consider unfairâ or âchoose a guild that raids with personal lootâ points to be made, but that entire thing seems difficult to discuss, given how people react to other people in positions of power, citing the Stanley Milgram experiment here.
Agreed, which is why we should have options on how to distribute loot, so that anybody can use whatever system they prefer, rather than argue about which one is the best.
Also keep in mind, this here is a healer speaking, we donât get gear, itâs usually dps first, healers and tanks last.
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Why people need someone dictating their loot or who gets the loot?
I donât mind a toogle on raid guilds, but doing this on pugging content would just make things worse. I dont need a raid leader deciding if I get the loot or not. If I donât need the loot, I ask who needs it and trade it as Iâve seen many do in every run Iâve made. Do people need someone leading them on who gets loot?
Add it on guilds only, but not for pugging. It would just be a mess.
No need to add it at all, just remove trading restrictions on personal loot
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Agree with this.
No to ninja-looter.
Yes to removing trade restrictions.
You need a separate realm so that ML does not become the default through players. Thatâs the entire reason people do not want it back. If you give people the option whatâll happen is the majority of guild leaders will adopt it because it gives them more power which then in turns expands abuse.
Having a separate realm creates an understanding that in this realm and only this realm is ML an option. Everywhere else is PL RNG. I think it works great. CE players get their wanted community, the rest of us get to play without you. Wins all around.
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Unfortuntely, this isnât true, but nice try.
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Thatâs not what happened in legion though. In the lower difficulties PL was used more than ML
Why are you upset about being separate? You get what you want donât you?
Im not. I just wondered why it would need a separate realm when people could just not join groups that use ML.
It would be funny to see how badly the groups rank that stay behind though after the majority of the highest pushing players have left
Only for having bad taste in art 