ML existed, had many complaints, Blizzard removed.
This is common sense. Beggars usually are lacking in this.
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How many complaints could have just been better served by the person (or in your case bot) doing the complaining just leaving the group in question?
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Stop trolling, kinda like you begged that other kid to stop.
You want PLNR because? My items are going to waste.
I answered after 1 months your items wont go to waste.
The other cons you mentioned were rings and necklaces and cloaks drop more but that also means weapons and trinkets drop more as they are also fairly large number of common trinkets and weapon used by several classes and the stats of these items change depending on your spec. So the other con you mentioned also has pros to it.
I donât have an issue with GML as iâve mentioned before in this thread but it should be limited to only mythic runs+100% guild group only as newer players and casual players looking to enter or return to raiding should not be bashed out of their loot progression as that leads them to be demoralized and again quit raiding and as ML being in anything other than mythic means it will seep into the progression of these casuals/returning/new players.
IDC what you think of my mindset this is not a society this a video game forums page you dislike how i speak than thats a you problem.
And i donât see anything wrong from whatever iâve said, iâve addressed all your points you not liking my mindset is subjective and youâre just finding problems in me as a person in a video game forum because you think thereâs a problem in it. and yes i mean you tiklix this post is addressed to you and the points youâve made not to your society.
Literally no one is forcing you, you are talking about it like someone has held you captive and you talk like your a victim here.
If we are talking from the point of system being forced your point is entirely hypocritical cause up till legion ML was the default for all raids so the Anti ML players were forced for so many years for ML and you are acting up cause you cant handle waiting for 1 month of gameplay?
Youre clearly not practising what you are preaching cause you clearly disregarded my fact why cant you wait one month for looting to ease you havenât answered it at all.
Isnt RC loot council the same as ML?
Again âCant you wait one month for Loot restrictions to ease outâ.
Not as many as you think. RL says in open chat what the loot rules are. people agree.
- changes to ML during the fight. people are busy fighting and miss the change. RL profits.
- RL sees the drop he was wanting, ignores previously agreed rules and takes it for himself.
- RL just flat takes everything and kicks anyone he wants to.
people make tickets(rightfully so) and blizz has to have people(that have been laid off at this point) deal with them. Cost blizz time and money, the 2 most important factors for a corporate entity. Blizz cuts the gordian knot and gets rid of ML. win for blizz, thats all that they care about. As for wasted loot, what makes that a con for blizz? you will be back next week to do it again.
edit: too many rings/necks dropping is another problem entirely and could be addressed with a thread to fix that problem. Blizz might even listen.
youâre forgetting what should happen next:
4. raid sees that RL just did that
5. most of raid leaves
6. RL is now unable to kill more bosses until they fill again.
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people leave, and fill out tickets as RL violated the rules that blizz set out. Blizzard owns all loot. it still costs blizz resources and unhappiness among customers. People made blizz pull the car over and arent liking what happened.
Except for stuff such as the Rygelon weapon?
Hunter weapons? Agi daggers? Warglaives?
Also even if those classes didnât exist, simple math dictates that rings, necklaces and cloaks are more common than weapons and trinkets, given the fact that theyâre in everybodies loottable and the other stuff isnât. If you donât get how this works, I canât help you, this isnât an opinion, itâs just a fact.
You considering everybody who believes that PL isnât the greatest thing since buttered bread as part of a collective with the same mindset is unhealthy and wrong.
As long as I play WoW, I am forced to use PL.
If ML were an option, literally nobody would force anybody to use ML, since you could simply refuse to join groups using ML.
Youâre describing the exact opposite of whatâs actually going on.
In WoD, there were more than enough raids using PL. Before that, I agree, most raids did indeed use ML.
Youâre quoting from a reply to somebody else.
Doesnât matter for items with the itemlevel 285.
Edit: Also of course I can and I have to, since I have no other option. But why do I need to wait for one month (usually a lot more, at this point I still canât trade 278 bracers, trinkets, a weapon, hands, shoes, cloak and a necklace) to trade items I loot? Theyâre my items after all, so why donât I have the power to trade them to whoever I want?
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I mean to a extent i agree on the fact of cloaks/necks and rings are more common.
Try this
I never said that PL was flawless and also agreed to the fact that PL has its cons as i point out before that PLâs flaws do not out weigh the problems that were because of ML.
And if you are disregarding that then let me explain to you that iâm not Pro PL iâm Anti ML.
So yes The current system is the greatest thing since buttered bread cause the last system was a toxic soup.
Again not practicing what you are preaching cause you very well know that if ML existed as it did up till legion it would be the default as i pointed it out before but you are just disingenuous and are disregarding what iâve said before.
So people will be forced to play as the outcome of it being the default setting. As pointed out several times on this thread by several other people that guild jumping is not practical by any means and joining any guild that wants to do even heroic runs would follow the meta of ML and hence it would be the default causing the casuals or returning players (or even newer player which might be few and far apart) to lose their progression and are faced by gatekeepers such as yourself.
So does this get through you that you are being a hypocrite by saying you are forced, while ML is the past has been a forced system.
So what if im quoting your reply to someone else does your ethics and principles change depending on who you are replying to? are you that fickle?
If your answer is that simple as to why should i then you are literally wasting my time here. i donât have to explain that your minor inconvenience is not a valid reason to bring back ML.
So what two months? youâre getting items from the vault im pretty sure someone has already gotten a 278 bracer, trinket, weapon, hands, shoes , cloak and necklace in your raid team im sure that your wonderful RC loot council(a.k.a substitute to ML) will surely provide you with the items you need iâm sure your fellow team mates want to give away their items as much as you do.
and by your logic these are fairly common so iâm sure youâll get them really soon.
Still my question of why cant you wait wasnât answered all i got was iâm being forced to wait and why should i wait. Extremely poor argument to bring back ML.
Still no valid reasons to bring back ML.
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I think iâve figured out why these guys want ML back humor me on this one.
These Pro ML players are mostly players who are mythic raiders and if not world best but in general with a very good progression into the patch.
These are also the people who sell boosts and boost selling is something that is done mostly by heavily geared people its done by the most top end raid teams and mythic raiders as they need to make their gold back that they have spent for their progression.
I mean consumables are expensive as sin right? those flasks ainât cheap tbh and using those for like 100+ wipes per boss i mean thatâs alot of gold.
So because they use up so much consumables and other raid costs they are most of the time either broke or have really less gold.
so to get the gold back as i mentioned they do boosts but now blizzard has hammered down the boosting communities so these guilds arenât getting as much gold as they did because its no longer a managed system these guilds have to spam trade chats and hope they find people to boost which im sure there are plenty.
But the overall profits are lower than when the boosting communities were available so now to get their profits up these guys need the GDKP system back but need ML to do so.
I dont know i could be wrong but something worth thinking about.
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That could be a part of it, but mostly, I think it isnât the world first types that are complaining. I agree those world first type guilds will have a hard time making their gold back this time around.
The vast majority of the reasons given is: I want to be able to get my loot more efficiently than the current system.
I agree i agree it was just a thought i have nothing to back up that post.
Glad weâve cleared that up. So
was false.
But you did group everybody who dared to suggest that there should be other options to provide loot than PL as
In that case glad we agree that GML and PLNR are better and should be implemented.
I canât help but wonder, did you play during WoD, when PL and ML were both options?
A lot, and I mean a lot of groups did abuse ML in pugs, yes, but thereâve been a ton of PL pugs as well. Itâs dishonest to claim that pugs would all use ML.
They would also have the option to create a group that used PL as their setting, right?
Something that people who prefer ML donât have right now.
Thereâs no point in going back and forth âYouâre a hypocrite!â - âNo you!â - âNo you!â.
We both know that ML existing wouldnât automatically mean every guild and pug would use ML, itâd be silly to claim that. And if you intend to be silly, forgive me for not catching up on your sarcasm.
No, but I consider context important. Also Iâve not disregarded any of your pros for PL, Iâve established that theyâre simply not true.
Counterpoint: Your minor inconvenience is not a valid reason why I should use a loot system that I donât prefer, while mine isnât a valid reason you shouldnât use a loot system that you prefer.
Not sure, will be able to tell you in three weeks. Would still be a 100% increase from your claim.
The answer is: âI can wait and I have to wait. But itâs an inconvenience created by the poor loot distribution system that is PL that would be removed by having a better loot distribution system, namely PLNR, GML or ML.â
You not wanting an inconvenience forces other people to submit to having an inconvenience.
And well, I donât believe PLNR will ever happen, even though I consider it the best option, because Blizzard doesnât want RWF to be 30 pink people in one raid. Thus I advocate for the change of the current system to one I consider better, GML or ML.
âBoosters bad, theyâre the source of everything that has ruined WoW!â
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Most of the players posting about this on the forums are wanna be mythic raiders.
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GDKP is how I first time garnered over 100k gold on my WoW life. They just invite some wealthy noobs at the beginning first section of raid dungeon to let them buyoff things we usually disenchant. Then find their faults on next hard bosses and kick them out and replaced them with awesome players that would be able to kill the last bosses for more loots for auction.
I didnt know I was used for the boss kills. But I gained a lot of gold so I was not complaining.
Thatâs the only thing I like with ML, as it allowed us to do GDKP⊠It really worked. But I was blind that we were promoting selling of loot with gold from bad players we carry. I didnt organize their GDKP. I was just there to help them kill Bosses while I get paid. And I was using two toons per week. Itâs like we take home 5k to 15k gold per toon per week⊠2 GDKP runs per week. Thatâs decent amount of money during Wrath.
You saying you are Pro GML doesnt make you different from pro ML its literally in the name please stop being disingenuous youâre wasting my time. and it doesnt matter who i group and who i donât its a forum post you getting your feelings hurt is not my problem i havent abused you over here or insulted you.
Show me where i mentioned pugs im talking about casuals who are entering into raiding with a guild you are saying whoever doesnt do mythic raiding only do pugs? please stop you dont have a single good argument other than the fact that rings neck and cloaks are more common drops.
you go back to the one point that i admitted i was wrong to cause thats the only thing you have.
There again i said that inconvenience is not an argument to bring back ML.
My question is why cant you wait? inconvenience is your answer? So hereâs and answer to youâre inconvenience blizzard had to deal with thousands if not 10s of thousands of tickets every week to solve these ML ninjas and RL being biased and because of GDKP and DKP systems now thats an inconvenience you think blizzard is running a charity here? they need to reduce their costs and having a small percentage of players having to wait a bit longer is a fair enough trade to them.
Now if you have a better answer than inconvenience ill respond to that waiting to be turned to pro ML until then please stop wasting everyoneâs time please and thank you.
I am glad to hear about the fortune you made.
And i respect the hustle.
But we used ML/GDKP to sell our raid loots with gold to our carries. I think Blizz doesnt like that. Maybe one reason why it got banned. GDKP was very prevalent during Wrath on our server. On Cata, ML was gone and GDKP stopped as it wont work without ML.
So you yourself are also pro ML? But claim to be anti-ML?
Gotcha.
This is where Iâll end this conversation. Good luck in life.
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