That’s cool and all, I’m just a heroic raider (my alt btw) , mythic prog guilds don’t use fills I know. But my example was for a heroic raid setting.
But as I’ve said in a previous post, the loot problem can be solved by bringing back the roll system.
No other forms of loot, no ML, no PL, boss dies everyone gets a pop up saying need greed or pass. That way guild groups can pass, no one can force others to give away loot and everyone lives by the dice
They should bring back ALL the loot options they removed.
Remember free-for-all? Free for all was GREAT when we were out mass-killing stuff in the world for skins or whatever, and we just needed the bodies to be empty and didn’t care who got the greys.
Bring it all back. Options are good.
You might not have a choice because no other groups are running without ML.
It creates too much fertile group for players to abuse one another.
You just can’t trust everyone to be mature, responsible and fair with a reward system.
Have you heard of loot specification?
Idk bro you just want to ignore facts at this point and that makes the debate complete pointless.
Tank loot tables are glutted with DPS trinkets and weapons they can’t use.
Yea I agree, I’m just a heroic raider mate (my alt here btw) you can fine tune the group, but there will be some cases where the upgrade might be for 2 people, and the loot gets given to someone who maybe performs better.
To remove this, I would say remove all forms of loot types, only have the rolling system of “need”, “greed” and “pass” guild groups can pass if they wanna funnel gear. People who feel like they deserve the loot can do a need roll and leave it to the dice
You are arguing past me. When ML was the only system people didn’t have a choice. That is what I was alluding to.
I can understand and support this particular line of thought (even though it’s not as simple as "no one is asking for ML to replace PL’ as that typically seems to be the argument) however I’m unsure how they coexist without players being pressured into accepting ML when it is clearly against their interest in doing so. If this is the system that people prioritize so they can take advantage of other players, then we find ourselves exactly where we were before the removal of ML.
I remember ML in WoD and every single group listing always had gear reserved. ML is trash. No player should ever have say over another players loot acquisition.
You are saying 1/10 guilds used it, I call bs.
Not gonna lie, the ninja loot videos of people accidentally leave FFA on in raid. Those were funny to watch
truly the take of an hdh player, way to enforce stereotypes my friend.
Actually, if it is agreed upon before the start of the raid, then it’s perfectly okay.
I’m speaking of the part before the editing. 
Semper Fi! 
I personally think the better of both worlds is that if I get a loot drop then I PERSONALLY get to decide what I want to do with it. If I want to take it to the scrapper, I can. If I want to give it to someone else, I can. If I want to put it on and use it, I can.
Just my 2 cents.
Already answered this. Data was collected at the end of Legion across thousands of raiding guilds demonstrating that you’re wrong on this front.
GOOD. Those are player interactions. I’d rather know immediately if a group is going to abuse me via ML. I’d like to see them reward their consistent players. I’d like them to demonstrate their ability to show transparency in their systems. I’d like them to demonstrate that they are trustworthy to me. I’d like an actual relationship with the people I’m about to put months if not years of my life into. I’d like to not just be another number on the board.
What people like you can’t seem to grasp is that me wanting ML has almost NOTHING to do with gear. Gear is literally meaningless. I want to know how you treat me when you have nearly ALL of the power over me. Someone who is nice to you, but not the waiter is NOT a nice person. Well… Someone who is happy to abuse me (or others) with ML is NOT someone I want to play games with.
Why you seem to be perfectly happy playing with people who you actively assume will abuse you if given the chance is beyond me. You do you.
Right before pull “Uh why did lead just change to ML? WTF”
Yes you can decide. But there might be cases, where you have a good prog group. You get a pc of loot and the raid lead tells you to give it to someone who parses better than you. It’s an upgrade for both of you but now you are put in a situation where you MUST trade. That doesn’t feel good.
I’d rather just leave it all to the dice.
Wow… It’s almost like no one is asking for WoD’s system back. We’re asking for Legion’s system back. When ML forced 80% of the group to be guildies to be utilized. In fact most of us asking for it to return demand that that number be upped to 100% guild. I agree. Open season ML to the entire pug world is too much.
You can call bs all you want. The numbers were run at the end of Legion because of all these debates. That’s what they said.
just create a system like with raid lockouts, a big thing pops up asking if your ok with the loot change or not.
That’s what blizzard should go back to. Stop treating the playerbase like we’re small children.
Again you only talk about this from the point of view of item being given to you by Masterloot or loot council you dont see the fairness in the you keep what you get system rather than someone having you give the item they got to someone to you and them not even getting a chance to get it via the master loot.
Lets not forget how rampant the Ninja’s were running in Classic and TBC classic
Which is why PL is the fairest system we can expect to get. It eliminates the human factor of greed. I never said it was the best system, but by the hairy old hedgehog, it is fair!
Semper Fi!