But with the discussed bump in difficulty it could also come with another limiter on progression. Like less than 5 deaths in the run. So, no full wipes, all at once or total. Complete that and your key goes up a level. And it goes up a level up to 3 for each death under 5 that you have during the run.
You’d have an issue with this particular alternate progression?
There’s a good amount of RNG and things that just can’t be accounted for, plus it’s not just you who has to perform perfectly.
Last night on an alt I had a Freehold +5 group fall apart even though everybody was performing excellently because the key holder had a lag spike that made him walk a step too far and fall off a platform. He left out of sheer embarrassment and canned the run even though we easily would’ve beat the timer anyway with how we were mowing through things.
“Vetting who you invite will fix this” and “raiderio exists for a reason”, you say? Well maybe, but I don’t like it because it encourages an elitist exclusionary attitude that old hard dungeons didn’t.
yea, i don’t think deaths are a good metric at all.
time is a pretty good one tho.
if you can’t meet the timer we can make a statement about your dps’ output, your tank’s pulling speed and your healer’s ability to keep the party moving from pack to pack.
People are missing the problem here. It’s not that the dungeons now are too easy, it’s that gear inflation is so crazy that even the hardest base dungeons are outgeared by a fresh 120 in a day or two.
Day 2 of BFA I ran mythic dungeons with my guild mates at 290 or so ilvl. They were hard, we had to cc and learn boss mechanics, we wiped on trash and bosses. I think this is exactly the experience you are looking for OP. However now I am almost 100 item levels above when I first entered mythic dungeons and can solo them. How are they supposed to keep them relevant with the current gear progression.
That particular thing could/would happen in either case though. Sooo… Yeah, I get you, but wouldn’t keep people from leaving once they feel embarrassed.
No, but it’s not making anything more fun. In fact, it’s the opposite; the higher the key, the less fun and more frustrating the run will be. Lots of times after doing a few M+ keys I feel like I have to take a nap because it’s so draining. UBRS and Shadow Labs never did that, even with a ragtag underleveled or undergeared party.
Why? Considering that the trash and bosses would be MUCH stronger than a timed key would be facing? To make up for the fact that you all you have to do is complete with less than 5 deaths. Make it so that if you do any kind of stupid you are more than likely dead. You really have an issue with that. Considering that someone running this type of key would probably do one every 2 hours or so compared to you being able to complete 4 in that time. Seems fair to me.
That’s true, but at least with a normal dungeon you can find someone to fill the spot without any kind of penalty. I’ve salvaged countless runs of other dungeon types when people left, but that’s not possible with M+.
Just want to reply to this. You can’t make bosses and trash packs harder than +19-20 keystones. Some abilities are already on the verge of 1 shots unless you stack immunity classes. If they did this you would likely see groups of 3 tanks and 2 healers just to be able to mitigate damage.
All the reason I do not do them. I don’t enjoy the rush rush rush mentality.
how is this hard? if things are doing large amounts of damage it’s just a gear check
it is not more difficult to fight trash for 5 minutes than it is to fight a pack of low health mobs, some of which are infested, and need to be killed and taken care of quickly so we can move to the next pack and meet the timer.
adding health and damage to mobs is not what makes m+ challenging. it’s having to do all of this on the fly; fast and efficient enough to finish in time.
Oh no, you misunderstood. It is still a M+. You just can complete in a different manner than timed. A previous poster was correct. Gear creep, more like LEAPS, prevents the classic base dungeons from being relevant anymore. You’d have to have a scale-able dungeon mechanic like M+ to do it right.
I hear ya OP. I didn’t like mythic+ in BFA from day 1 availability. It just isn’t a positive experience. It feels like you’re completing a task, instead of enjoying a dungeon. It’s the opposite experience from what a dungeon crawl should be.
Speed running content was like the reward from gearing up and having mastered a dungeon. Now, you’re expected to speed run from day 1.
I liked Challenge Modes because they were completely optional content for an appearance, mount, and title. That’s it. There was no progression attached to it.
Mythic+ feels like it’s a mandatory thing and it has destroyed my enjoyment of doing dungeons. (Something that was always my favorite form of content.)
I hate to say it, but the WoW designers have completely killed my sense of fun in this game with their ideas. The reward structure is in a shambles. The game is now fully an action RPG, and not what I’d consider a worthwhile investment in time.
Oh sure. You’d reach that level MUCH MUCH faster in the proposed type of run. Hell, probably around level 7 to 9 is my guess. I don’t see an issue with that. If the folks just want that style of run, then they can run it. They’ll just be stuck at a lower level of reward for a long time. And I’m not saying do away with the affixes either. If you want to take on a trash pack and fight it for 5+ minutes all the while dealing with necrotic, explosive, what have you, then more power to you.
Please note, I never once said I was a fan of this particular idea. But it is an alternate option for those who want to take it slower in runs. Remember, this is an OPTIONAL THING that you can CHOOSE TO DO when starting the run.
And worse, even the “RPG” part is fading.
the timer should not be a source of stress until you reach a +10
if you are running low on time consistently and this is ruining the runs for you, find out what you’re doing wrong and make them faster so the timer becomes irrelevant.
if you have two minutes left and you haven’t been reached the final boss trash, find out why instead of bemoaning the timer. spoiler: it isn’t because the timer is too tight or it’s pushing some gogogo mentality, it’s probably a lot of error on your end.
if you are good players who enjoy challenging 5 man content like you say you are, i don’t think trying to improve is asking a lot. that’s what challenging content is about right?
No argument with that. But it is ONE type of challenging content. Why not have ANOTHER type of challenging content? Completely optional. Totally in your control as to if you want to run it.
It’s not the timer directly that’s the cause for stress. It’s the need for constant unfettered perfection as a result of the timer – it’s no longer gameplay, it’s a performance. It gives me anxiety and makes me hyperfocused the whole run, which is draining and unfun.
Ya you musta started in legion…
Okay, then I have to agree with Bobbydigital. Just ignore the timer. Because either way that content is going to stress the mess out of you at an appropriate level if you are going to receive an adequate reward from it.