@Bobbydigital this was exactly what was going through my mind. If you are not willing to clear the high M+ now even without timer what would make you think you could do something without a timer and harder then regular M+? M+ right now is not easy and to give adequate loot they would have to match the difficulty, or else we would be running +45s since the only thing stopping us is the ability of our characters.
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This exactly.
It was customary to run into a chain-pulling tank in the latter phases of Cata*, when everyone outgeared dungeons, so it was no real problem so long as you were up to par. But then in Pandaland, the same chain-pullers kept at it, even though people didn’t outgear the content yet. And then Pandaland introduced the challenge modes, and it’s been off to the races every since.
Now we’ve had two straight xpacs that reward chain-pulling; there is no going back. To the point where I’ve had people suggest that its Bliz intentionally turning dungeon runs into an e-sport.
But yes, at the risk of sounding like an old-timer, dungeons felt more epic when you actually had to plan what you were doing.
*: this is not to say Cata is where it started, but it was more noticeable then (at least to me).
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You do plan what you’re going to do in m+. You just generally don’t plan to CC things. There is a huge difference.
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Maybe your regular group discusses and plans ahead of time what’s going to happen where, but if you’re implying that this is how even the majority of mythic groups proceed, I call shenanigans. Besides, it’s completely missing the point that Mythic+ should not be the one and only kind of dungeon that offers gear progression at endgame.
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That isn’t missing the point. I don’t see how it is possible to have dungeons without a timer giving good rewards and be balanced with other content without a timer. The timer is essential. There is nothing challenging or epic about CCing everything in the dungeon and killing it 1 mob at a time.
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Then make heroic raids harder. 10s are much harder than heroic uldir which is a meme difficulty. 10s have much more room for failure and subpar rewards compared to barely paying attention in PUGGABLE content that has been 100% puggable since week 2 of Uldir barring Ghuun.
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I miss the hell out of Scholo, Strat, and UBRS runs. They were sometimes a pain but you knew that there was a very good chance of getting something nice out of the run and completing them felt great.
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Not really. Idk if youve been on any forum, players dont want hard content. Heroic bosses consistently have mechanics nerfed because people dont want to do them (LUL Archimonde post nerf) and SEVERAL dungeon bosses constantly get nerfed because casual pugs dont want to do mechanics. This is the forum that absolutely despises tyrannical/fort on +2 because it makes lower keys “too hard”.
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So, according to you, the way dungeons were done for the majority of WoW, are wrong. So wrong in fact, that people who don’t like GO GO GO don’t deserve any progression, because it would be too hard for Blizzard to make dungeons the way they did for over ten years.
And yes, you ARE missing the point. Even though you don’t want it, other people DO want dungeons the way they’ve been for the majority of this game. And the only reason you have a problem with this is because you have it in your head that other people don’t “deserve” the rewards you are getting playing a mode that you like. Yet I defy you to explain to me what other people get - or how they get it - has anything to do with what you get.
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I mean you can go ahead and do stuff without addons. Go for it. Tank in Ant with no timers. Felhounds and Varimathras BOTH had tank mechanics with no cast time or “tell”. Didnt pop a defensive for Shadow Slash on Vari? You either took 90% of your health or straight up died.
I dont even look at DBM on farm content or even after like pull 25 on progression. Its not hard to memorize patterns and if I can at 6/8, then chances are the CE and +20 key runners probably can as well.
Its a good thing that key level is FAR beyond any gear rewarded to complete. People were doing 10s the first week the system came out in like 325-330 gear. The ceiling right now is generally in the 20s which is FAR beyond the cap on gear which is a +10 or soon to be +15 if it will be anything like Legion.
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I really liked the “old” way of adding truly optional timers to dungeons. If you completed them, you got a nice bonus, but there wasn’t any progression mechanic gated behind the timer.
And yes, affixes are more frustrating than they are fun.
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I asked a while back for a different style of M+ where the goal wasn’t to go as fast as possible. Had a few folks who agreed. But most said they WANTED to go as fast as possible so they could get out of the run as soon as they could. Which… Okay, I can understand. But not everyone wants to play the same way. More options is better.
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And next to no one did dungeons later in the xpac outside of feeling like they HAVE to for Valor. Oh yeah running H Mogushan during the 13 months of SoO was SOOOOO hard its not like you couldn’t just pull damn near everything especially with 5 cloaks. Your nostalgia glasses are fogging up. No one ran dungeons after the first tier of raiding unless they gave VERY unproportional rewards. No matter when you did the dungeon the mobs had the same amount of health and damage thus making them laughing cake walks if you wanted Valor.
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How is it a personal attack? Heaven forbid someone actually participate in the field they are talking about. You going to talk about how physics theories are incorrect to your second grade english teacher?
For those who are replying that you can’t make a dungeon challenging without a timer… Sure you can. You just make the trash and bosses so freaking punishing that if you mess up, if you miss 1 CC or 1 Stun or pull 1 extra mob while fighting… it’s over. Some people like that level of difficulty challenge rather than the “how fast can we do this” challenge.
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are you all still playing make believe?
even if the content existed, you wouldn’t run it. wouldn’t be anyone in the queues to carry you and the rewards would be bad
that’s assuming you could complete this magical fantasy difficulty that is hard as mythic but without a timer. and im gonna assume you couldn’t.
if you could, you’d know the timers in m+ are a suggestion and playing well will meet them all until you get into the high keys.
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Heroics should be available for the segment of players who continually get denied Mythis + spots because of their build, raider i/o score or for players who like the OP get tired of the rush, aoe everything mentality. Raids, shouldn’t be the only thing that requires a group to slow down.
This is why I really want a game to come around that provides this, with updated systems. Classic WoW will be entertaining, but due to stubbornness of players, it will never feel modern or be more than a passing fancy for most.
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I really don’t understand why people want less options rather than more. What would it hurt you if there was an option to run the dungeon as either timed, like you have now, or untimed with the inherent difficulty bump as discussed.
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you have the option of running the mythic + while ignoring the timer
if you play well enough, the timer is entirely irrelevant. it is impossible to not make it while playing your class correctly
if you are having trouble meeting them, try to improve.
does it hurt me? no, it isn’t causing me physical pain. is the timer hurting you?
i feel like this whole idea is just an excercise in cognitive dissonance; GD posters can’t run m+ because of the timer. couldn’t possibly be a lack of skill and experience with challenging 5 man content.
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