Well, I like doing dungeons so… why do you think it matters to me that it would take 3 times as long?
Why would running a dungeon in under 30 minutes be considered a desirable outcome if I enjoy dungeons?
6 Likes
It seems you enjoy standing around and doing nothing if you happen to be in a dungeon. So I guess I wouldn’t expect you to have fun actually doing the dungeon at a reasonable pace. I like doing dungeons too and taking an hour and a half to do something that should take 30 minutes sounds like a complete nightmare especially if its because you CC everything and kill mobs one by one for 90 minutes straight. That would just be terrible and insanely boring.
4 Likes
I think mythic plus would be perfect if they just got rid of the stupid timer.
4 Likes
“M+ is just another symptom of Activision forcing “content” that does little more than increase playtime.”
Wait, what…? Giving an option for PvE other than raiding is bad? The fact that raids have multiple difficulties (and have for a long time now) doesn’t do the exact same thing you just said??
I guess adding rated BG’s was also forcing “content” since we already had regular BG’s? Or maybe it’s just an additional competitive PvP option rather than just having arena…?
4 Likes
Only have to wait a couple more months!
Not at all. There’s plenty to do:
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Tanks need to be aware of their surroundings, where are the mobs, who are they attacking, does a mob need to be taunted to keep it from attacking the DPS or Healer, where are they positioning the mobs such that they don’t pull the patrol, rotating a mob such that directional attacks don’t hit other members of the party, making sure that the pace of the party’s advance gives every player ample time to be prepared and set up for an attack, including but not limited to establishing the order of focus, CC, interrupts, etc.
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Healers make sure that the tank survives the onslaught of mob attacks, keeping DPS health topped off, making sure to cleanse any debuffs from party members, as well as utilizing whatever utility abilities they may bring to the table that increases the party’s chance success, including CC, interrupts, as timely buffs. They do this all while attempting to stay out of the proverbial fire, pulling threat from mobs that the tank would then be distracted by at possibly inopportune times, or inadvertently moving into the path of a patrol or threat zone of some other group of mobs.
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Damage are there to burn the world down around them while making sure not to get themselves into too much trouble by standing in the proverbial fire. They make sure they focus their collective efforts such as to make most of their efficiency to do so, killing mobs in quick succession according to the agreed upon combat order that is right for their party composition, and using and maintaining their Crowd Control abilities to keep enemy damage and abilities from causing unnecessary and unexpected difficulties, and utilizing their utility abilities to aid other party members when it’s necessary to do so or when it will provide a meaningful buff at the right moment during a fight.
But I would have fun. I don’t need to do any of this at some breakneck speed over and over again in the same day. What I don’t understand about your point of view is that doing one dungeon over 90 minutes is somehow less desirable than doing 3 dungeons over that same 90 minutes. Your position doesn’t make any sense from my perspective except perhaps that you don’t really like running dungeons at all and are just doing them because someone told you that it’s necessary and thus they have to be done as fast as possible to get them out of the way. I’d hardly call that “fun”.
Why should it only take 30 minutes?
What rule is there that says that only activities that take under 30 minutes can be considered fun?
What about doing an activity that you enjoy for a longer amount of time, especially an activity that you are probably going to just end up doing multiple times in the same 90 minutes, can be considered a “nightmare”? Seriously, I do not understand your point of view here.
Why is killing mobs “one by one” any more or less of a nightmare than killing several mobs at the same time, “one pull by one pull”?
You seemed to assigned some value to the idea that killing “one mob” one after the other is somehow fundamentally different that killing 5 mobs one after the other.
And to be clear, I don’t think anyone here suggesting that speed running dungeons isn’t a challenge in it’s own right, but it’s just not the challenging experience that we want to enjoy. Rather its that we don’t enjoy the pacing the experience. We don’t have the same interest in speed running content as some players seem to have. That doesn’t mean that we just want to stand around inside of a dungeon having a tea party. And I think that this is a paradigm that you just don’t want to understand, because you are too emotionally invested in what you believe to be fun to consider that other players may not agree.
11 Likes
Agree 100%. I think they missed the mark with the m+ system.
I envision it as such:
Bring back challenge mode style from MoP for people who enjoy the timer mechanic. Set gear level, sweet tmog rewards.
Mythic dungeons are grindable/repeatable to an extent (maybe repeatable 5 times a day for example), with maybe a weekly blizz event with higher wf/tf rates (I personally don’t like wf/tf, but blizz has said it isn’t going away)
Completing mythic dungeons will give players materials to craft a m+ key. This key can be crafted to access a dungeon of the player’s choosing in m+ mode. This m+ dungeon can only be completed once per week. Depending on how many materials you use to craft the key, the difficulty of the dungeon will increase with potential new abilities/mechanics being added, and the rewards will obviously scale up as well (much like they do now). You will be able to go in and out of the dungeon at will, no resetting or “failing” if people leave. If a group falls apart, you will be able to continue on with new players as long as your group consists of at least 2-3 of the original players who started the dungeon with you.
To limit people from doing the “easiest” dungeon each week, you can only repeat a dungeon on M+ after you have completed every other dungeon on M+ once (ie. say atal dazar is the first dungeon you do on M+, you will only be able to do it again after completing the other 9 dungeons on M+ mode). So it will take you 10 weeks to cycle through the whole M+ list.
You will also get awarded currency per M+ boss kill that you can use to buy items from the entire dungeon list pool. That way you don’t feel as screwed if you’re on a tough week. You can just craft the base key to complete the dungeon and get some points without having to pull your hair out on ridiculous bolstering packs in underrot (just an example).
Something like this would never happen, but one can dream lol.
2 Likes
Leave M+ as they are for people that enjoy speed running. Don’t care about them - if people like running them then good for them. I think that M+ also need some changes to make them more fun, but that’s a completely different discussion.
But just give me back 5mans I can farm, all bosses drop relevant loot at a reasonable difficulty.
Blizzard are more than capable of making challenging dungeons that are challenging in their own right without requiring a timer and random affixes.
5 Likes
So run heroics?
Put me down for one literal up vote and a hundred mental ones.
Every so often I’ll see something pop up on a third party site about ‘ehrmagerdz world’s first M+ whatever key!’ and I just cringe. What… everrrrr
3 Likes
I agree that the M+ timer is limiting! There are tons of specs but only a few of them excel at fast trash removal, so those specs get over-represented and the others become liabilities.
But the speed is part of why M+ is fun! With no timer, it would be an excruciating crawl that takes hours. Blowing all our cooldowns and waiting minutes between every single tiny pull. I don’t think people want to spend 1-2 hours in Shrine. This isn’t a raid.
The highest I have ever done is +5, so I am no expert. But at least in low-level keys, I would not enjoy proceeding at a glacial pace.
It’s about different goals, which is what some people are missing in this thread. Welcome to 2018 where someone can be wrong for enjoying something different.
The point is people like you, OP, and others (myself included) want the enjoyment of strategy, accomplishing something as a team with communication, trial and error, and a real sense of victory at the end. Other people just want to hit a button and have a reward pellet fall into their lap as quickly as possible because to them it isn’t the content they enjoy, only the reward.
That is also what killed raiding for me. Some of the best times I had were raiding back in BC and Wrath with friends and we’d wipe, and then discuss why we wiped and decide what we needed to do differently. We figured it out and then we’d try again until we won.
Now it’s just wait until the poopsock world first guilds do it and then just watch their guide. Show up to a raid and you haven’t watched the fight video? Go watch it. No, you’re not allowed to go in blindly and have the enjoyment of figuring it out as a team.
The whole point now is getting the shiny at the end, not the content itself. That is the core issue in my own humble opinion.
5 Likes
Maybe for someone with attention deficit disorder but I see absolutely no reason why spending an hour in a single dungeon should be any more or less desirable than a 2 dungeon runs that take 30 minutes each.
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Indeed. And it’s not even as if the “rewards” themselves are that enticing. Do I really care that I’ve earn 100 more Azerite? What’s the point of this rat race?
3 Likes
Mythic + reminds me of 45 min Baron Strat runs, and who needs more of that headache?
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Timers for extra rewards have existed outside of M+ dungeons for years, and were equally challenging and far more fun than I’ve found M+ to be. Why that is could be a variety of things, but it’s probably very likely that I’m just not into the end-game right now.
45 Minute Baron was one of the most difficult experiences in Vanilla that was accessible to anyone. Bear runs in Zul’aman were quite difficult, but rewarding all the same. Executioner runs, required if you were a raider in the early BC patches, were also difficult. Bronze Drake runs in Stratholme, also difficult.
All of these were fun. They didn’t have any affixes to them. They all had rewards. They were challenging, and then when they weren’t challenging any longer, they were removed and something else was found.
The M+ system works for some people, and I’m glad that they have that. For me, it isn’t interesting and I miss some of the more simple systems. I don’t like this feeling of being made to always chase a carrot. It’s no longer exciting.
8 Likes
Cata dungeons in the beginning were hard to heal for sure, drinking after each pull, but that should just prove that more CC was needed and less rushing through to get to bosses. Downing a trash mob group and figuring out the best way to do it was part of the fun of the mechanics. That is the way it was done in Vanilla and BC, somewhere in Wrath this started to change having us down trash more with AOE than CC. Maybe with the addition of the LFD it led to speeding up the dungeon experience to get through as quickly as possible, or the addition of dungeon weekly perks to accomplish, like JP for finishing 7 dungeons per week and such that made the player base move from a CC playstyle to the AOE style we have today. I for one am for the former, but I’ve been playing since Vanilla so I’ve seen both styles over the years. Even if you try to help in most dungeons by throwing out a CC, they get quickly broken anyway. Until Blizzard designs dungeons around CC again and less reliance on AOE burndowns, we won’t see much of the old style of play change in any real way.
2 Likes
I was hoping for some kind of 5 man gauntlet that didn’t have time tied to it, but instead relied on everyone giving their 100% and using cleaver game mechanics.
I’m tired of pushing clocks in a game that literally gates everything else.
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I miss seeing good cc’s in RANDOM dungeons. Especially with the old heroics. I enjoyed meeting random people and working through problems of the dungeon and getting a decent reward out of it. I started playing in cata and I miss cata dungeons. We earned currency after each heroic dungeon that we could use to buy gear, “justice points”. That was fun and WORTH it.
6 Likes
Just want to put in another plug for the megadungeon coming out next patch. It literally seems to be exactly what you guys are looking for.
1 Like