You must not have played a healer in the Cata heroics.
Mainly tanked but healed as well via disc.
Just wanted to point out this thread is from 2018.
Curious how somebody even found it to necro…
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I totally agree. The important thing is to always make clear that m+ being removed is not the goal. I think m+ is good overall and some people really love it. I enjoy it in short bursts but any more than that and I burn out.
I want 5 mans where the difficulty comes from the mobs/bosses not random affixes. I want the success/failure point to be either kill the enemy or enemy kill you. I don’t want it to be “easier” than m+, I want the difficulty to come from factors that don’t involve a timer. That’s my main complaint with m+. Cheers.
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This thread keeps getting new waves of replies every few months. I can only assume it pops up due to the popularity of the sentiment (1.1k replies, 25k views and 3.8k likes)
It’s also even more relevant in 2021 that it was when I created it in 2018. M+ is slowly but surely crushing the soul out of the game, and it has utterly destroyed raid gearing (while being trivially easier than heroic and mythic raiding).
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UBRS is LFR-level / heroic-dungeon level content cleared by a hodge-podge of randos with absolute no chance of failure. I’ve never ever heard of an UBRS group getting stuck. And that was back in Vanilla when people were terrible at the game.
lol
M+ saved the game from complete and utter decimation. During the progression of Cata → MoP → WoD the game grew stagnante, raid-or-die was not appealing enough to players, etc. People claim that the MMO market was shrinking, but that’s a complete and utter lie given we see the game has progressively grown from Legion to BFA to Shadowlands, reaching numbers not seen in almost a decade. M+ and Borrowed Power saved this game from complete stagnation and irrelevance.
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M+ and borrowed power are destroying the game like a cancer from within. Subs have been in a massive decline since the introduction of M+. They were at their peak when M+ didn’t exist.
M+ is just a zoomer ADHD game mode and is more suited to people with short attention spans and who think “AOE the whole instance down with FOTM classes” is the pinnacle of great skill and good gameplay.
Oh and in true zoomer “everyone’s a winner participation trophy” spirit, it rewards you with higher-than-the-instance ilvl loot for failing to even time the run.
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That’s just factually not true. Literally the opposite is true. Subs declined from Cata to MoP to WoD and have grown in Legion to BFA to SL.
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This is true at very high levels, but I have friends who PUG 18-19s regularly and I’ve timed all 16s w/o ever being on coms.
Lol grown. They’ve crashed in BFA and SL to the lowest of all time, and even when they grew a bit in legion they were still over half of what they peaked at over TBC/WOTLK.
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SL launched with a record-breaking 7.1 million subs.
Cata, MoP, and WoD rotted the player-base and Blizzard has had to slowly rebuild. They’re not going to hit WOTLK numbers in a single expansion, that’s just not how these things work. Even OG WoW had to build up its numbers over the course of the base game plus its two subsequent expansions, and that was during the golden era of MMOs and when it was a fresh exciting upstart rather than a 16-year old game.
Bobby Kotick is pleased with Ion Hazzikostas, let us be 100% clear about this in no uncertain terms. He is the favored one at Blizzard right now. He has the strength and authority to resist the Ripcorders or whoever else because he has delivered WoW out of destruction for his masters. You are simply 100% objectively incorrect and in no way correct. You are wrong. Lol.
You’re only focusing on the announcements they make at the start of an expansions life. A ton of people come back to check out the new toy. That peak is not maintained throughout the life of the expansion.
And the record that SL set is only because of the pandemic. Don’t give them too much credit for that. Many gaming companies have shown tremendous growth because of that situation.
Wrath had over 10 million subs.
What’s your point?
7.1 million < 10 million. What record did 7.1 million break?
Ask Blizzard or Google.
So do heroics and mythic 0s?
Harder content comes with better gear.
You know you can ignore the timer and still win…right?
This is one of the reasons I can’t wait for TBC. I never got into mythics.
TBC dungeons were challenging but you didn’t have to rush
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They’re doing that with mega dungeons. The only real problem is we get, like, one mega dungeon.
Would be cool if they launched with a handful of mega dungeons and then split them into M+ or something, and somehow kept both relevant throughout the expansion, while also adding new ones as we went.
Mythic 0s are only good until the season starts, then… who still does them, really? Folks looking to do achievement runs?
I felt that dungeons had more value with JP/VP and a rep tabard or dungeon sets than they ever did with an endless ladder to climb and a weekly casino box, personally.
Shadowlands seems like it was designed specifically for polar players. Those that either exclusively enjoyed said group progression and absolutely hated any sort of casual content, or those that did not do any sort of group progression at all and only did casual content.
But the rest of the game just isn’t there anymore for those of us in the middle. I kinda wish they’d add more back to leveling. We have boosts now, we have ways for people to just hit the current content immediately and jump in if they don’t like leveling.
So why do they have to streamline leveling? Why do they have to make professions so… empty? I miss having to level them through older content. It made them valuable to have. It gave me a reason to visit older content.
I miss the feeling of getting a talent point, or learning new skills, or doing class quests for my totem or druid forms, or leveling a weapon. These are the things that make classic so appealing, even though the content is so old, and the look is so old.
The rest of the game used to matter, not just what people are doing at max level. Would love to see them bring that feeling back to retail.
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