Even funnier note is that bc heroic dungeon achievements werent retroactive unless you had an item from the last boss.
- Timer and pushing stuff down to biggest aoe pulls ever is one of the biggest things of M+, along with figuring out ‘skips’ and how to get past certain mobs. Probably the most important in general of doing M+ on time.
- Some people, I know I’m not alone here, do not like Affixes either. They belong in Diablo, not in WoW to me. I preferred the difficult dungeons of the past like BC. Not artificial difficulty via timer or affixes.
- It has nothing to do with ‘hard’ content, and everything to do with how it plays, feels to players. Hence why people want difficult dungeons back that do not have a timer.
M+ Isn’t prestigious, nothing you can buy with gold run through is.
Another point to bring up? There’s plenty of threads about M+ leavers and how groups get largely punished with a key as a result of the timer and not being able to change out group members, etc. Difficult dungeons without a timer and those restrictions would help with that, too.
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Because it’s not fun. Being forced to sit there for 20+ minutes totally focused the entire time is just annoying. It’s frustrating. Doing mythic+ keys far above your gear can take hours and hours, and be really fun, the problem is that outside of the bug at the start of the xpac, GETTING a key like that is impossible.
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The funniest thing of them all is that if blizz were to remove the timer and affixes, it would be even more of a chain pull fest
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Or have friends and guildies willing to burn their keys down.
I do both push runs and guild runs where under geared and under experienced players are more than welcome. Just a nice relaxing run with chest at the end of it.
Honestly I prefer the relaxed guild runs where pushing the key is an unexpected and pleasant surprise.
But it would be nice to have both M+ and BC CC style difficulties to play. Although at this point the BC CC style might be difficult because AOE is such a huge part of almost every DPS class now. That sheep wouldn’t stand a chance.
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The aoe part is so true. I hate so many neutral mobs in BFA everywhere, where if I do my normal dmg rotation I pull everything in the nearby area.
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It was a nightmare for groups formed using LFD. That’s the key difference.
Can you imagine even just a +2 with people in gear appropriate (335ish) stuff formed using LFD?
TBC heroics were pretty easy for actual coordinated guild groups. PuGs were always hit and miss. Once we were in T5 we didn’t even use a real tank anymore because lifebloom x3 meant nobody was dying.
Are you doing the same dungeons I’ve done? Every pack has interrupts, abilities to stun, and mobs to kite because tanks can’t brainlessly face tank as difficulty goes up. Your DPS might be able to tank a mob in a +5 but as you go up in difficulty if a DPS pulls aggro they instantly die.
Just get to doing +10 and encounter the infest affix before it’s gone in a month with the new season. Specific mobs heal all others around them and need to either be focused down or CC’d and the rest pulled away. Which mobs are infested changes every week as well so you need to change what packs you pull and if some are even possible with mobs that aren’t CCable becoming infested instead.
I started playing in BC and old dungeons are nowhere near as difficult as people seem to think they were. I genuinely don’t remember ever failing to complete a dungeon outside not having enough time and someone had to leave for IRL reasons.
If you completely removed the timer and kept M+ the same as is, there’d be no real way to fail a dungeon outside not being able to make the DPS or HPS check of bosses as trash would become completely irrelevant as you could CC as much as you want and pull as little as you want. Having a timer makes it so there’s something more to the dungeon and you can’t just pull one pack at a time and slow roll your way through it.
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Yes to all of this! Base difficulty 5 mans should require CC, thought, and communication
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FF14 does it that way, also the dungeons are designed much like the old WoW ones. You have to take your time, cc its just not grab and aoe rinse and repeat. Why I love that game so much more then WoW now.
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Dungeons are more like a Broadway show than a combat mission. You train and rehearse to jump now, then spread apart, then stack. You get good at it but it becomes rote and not engaging, Then it is just grinding.
I wonder what it would be like if the dungeons were more random. Bosses and mobs not always in the same places and orders. You would have to stay on your toes and know your job. I think it would be more engaging. Also, the biggest penalty and most ill will occurs when it is your first time through and don’t know what to expect around every corner like the people that have done it 40 times.
The drawback I see is for those that need a standard run for competition, like having a standard length track to run a race. Gear farmers would have to pay more attention and might not like it either.
I wish it was an option though.
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You’re as shortsighted as it gets.
They tried doing hard heroic dungeons in cata. The forums were aflame with people complaining how they were too hard. This was from the era when SILVER proving grounds was too hard for most of the player base, which was the requirement to enter dungeons at the time. People complained they were being gated out of content.
This would only further gate people from dungeons, as the average person cannot do what you are describing. M+ allows a sliding scale of difficulty depending on how difficult you want to go. Don’t act like we didnt do all those BC 5 mans as fast as possible as well.
Another point about the AOEing and lack of CC. If you think you arent CCIng/single targeting mobs in current M+ then you have no idea what you are talking about. BFA M+ brings back calculated pulls and CC.
TLDR: OP has no idea what they are talking about.
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I regularly use CC all the time in m+.
I am not seeing the issue. The only time I blindly ae every mob down is when I am doing trivial m+ runs.
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But these people completely miss the point of the timers.
Just imagine the timer as the measuring stick to when you have the dungeon on “farm status” and need something more challenging. You still get rewards and loot for finishing the dungeon just like you always did even if you didn’t make the timer. The timer is there to let you know when the content is no longer a challenge for you and you should move up to the next difficulty level.
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Dungeons are already offered in 20+ difficulty levels, all the way up from normal to whatever the current highest keystone is. I don’t see how Blizzard could possibly be any more flexible on the difficulty variations offered.
As to people wanting to go-go-go, I feel like that has always existed, even back when there was only one difficulty level.
That leaves being able to always choose the dungeon, which is limited starting from mythic plus. I both understand the reason why they randomize it somewhat and also agree that finding ways to amp up the player choice aspect would be an improvement.
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There seem to be an awful lot of bads in this thread who can’t read.
I didn’t say m+ doesn’t have a place. I run m+. I don’t think it should be removed.
What I want is the old dungeon crawling experience back where every boss drops an item I can target. Where I can choose what dungeons I want to run rather than relying on an rng key. Where I can stop and think about a pull. Where there isn’t a timer. Where I don’t have to deal with Diablo affixes that suck the fun further out of the run. Explosive, necrotic… uggh
It’s a really simple concept. I’m happy for the people who enjoy m+. Keep running it. Just give me back my dungeon experience as well.
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Badge gear was not relevant even by tier 5 content. The new dungeons are much more challenging as well.
It isn’t JUST the challenge. It’s the type of challenge. And I find gogogorushrush timers cancerous.
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Sounds like you need a solid group of guild mates or friends.
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Sounds like you didn’t read my previous post where I explained I do. We all run m+ now, just to 10 or 11 for the weekly casino slots. This thread stemmed from us discussing amongst ourselves how much we missed proper dungeons.
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