Is it though? Raid bosses have timers. Do you disagree with that?
I don’t disagree, however…
Is essentially just whining about speed in a race, it’s a non-complaint.
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I mean, feel free to add a visible timer to any project you’re doing that will cut it close to being finished with some kind of negative thing happening if you don’t do it in time. I mean that’s not really a subjective thing at all. 
SOME bosses have enrage timers, yes, but not many. Those bosses are also some of the worst if It’s an enrage timer tied in with a DPS race because everyone starts crying and getting bent out of shape over “Omfg kick bad dps” even if the wipe wasn’t because of DPS at all.
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Just to come across as devil’s advocate:
Raid boss you fail the timer you rez and try again, and again and again and again. If you can’t progress it you can’t progress it. Get more gear next week and try again.
In M+ if you fail the timer your key is downgraded, you are now taking a step back for the following run/week instead of just picking up at the same difficulty you left off at (in raid, for instance).
Some people take that step back very seriously and really do lash out at others over it. Which is unfortunate.
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I consider myself semi hardcore with PVE I do 10-15 Keys and heroic raid. You’re also correct in saying that your experience isn’t all that different. There is a baseline of content that you arguably could spend doing without stepping into even a normal raid or a M2. The issue of heroics remaining relevant is another issue…one i personally think that M+ solves due the increasing difficulty. From a development standpoint why would blizzard make some patch 8.2 ect dungeons that will quickly become irrelevant. Or they could go the wrath route and create patch dungeons that are as good as the previous raid tier…which doesn’t actually solve the problem that they quickly become irrelevant.
The people who lash out due to not timing a key are pretty toxic to the game. But honestly it’s been like that forever even before M+.
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Oh most definitely, I was just pointing out the difference that others might see between a timed raid boss and a timed dungeon.
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World bosses no, but warfronts gave me a 450 staff and a 445 trinket… so yeah.
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It’s completely subjective. M+ is what I do and your said “just makes everyone angrier / stressed out.”
That isn’t the experience I have the majority of times I do keys. I only pug and make all the groups I’m in. Mostly because no one takes Disc priests, but it does give me control over how the group is built. Generally speaking, keys are pretty positive, even if mistakes happen. I still have occasional players who are rude, but I have experienced that in every form of play… even questing in the world. That’s just a reality of being online.
What raid bosses don’t have an enrage timer?
And the same thing happens in raid.
All of this just seems like the norm to me for any online game play. Be it a team match in CS or any MOBA on the market. If people don’t enjoy that gameplay, that’s fine. If people just don’t want that style of play in WoW, that could be a different topic.
No It’s not, unless you’re a masochist.
Putting a timer on ANY objective and saying “If you don’t get this done in the given time, there will be negative consequences” stresses people out, fact. That’s not subjective.
So only half the time that’s NOT your experience?
Just given the amount of threads made in the general forums, you’re wrong. You may have decent experiences HALF the times you do them, but in general timed events just add stress and make people rude.
#MakeHeroicsGreatAgain
As someone that used to be a fairly hardcore raider I see the purpose of Mythic+ for a portion of the player base, but I believe it alienates an even bigger portion of the players who don’t want to deal with the toxic atmosphere or ridiculous requirements to get in to most of the groups.
You made a subjective comment. Where is the confusion?
That isn’t a fact or even close to. Does’t get more subjective then that. Timers fail. It happens. Just the nature of the game. It helps frame the style of play. There are timers in a ton of aspects of wow or just online games in general. If you don’t like that style of play, then it’s not for you. But don’t impose your idea of what is and isn’t stressful on other players. If you’re getting stressed from a timer, then it’s clearly not a style of game play that’s good for you.
I do a lot of keys. That is an uncommon experience. If you want to argue with me, then please show me some proof that you do ANY keys to have some opinion on the matter. Just go watch the folks that stream. There are TONS of good people out there doing keys. There are also plenty of rude people as well. The same can be found in every aspect of this game.
If you aren’t even participating in this type of content, how can you have such a strong opinion?
I have done upwards of a 1,000 keys between my toons. I have a ton of prove experience. I’m not hear to lie. Negative stuff happens. LFR isn’t devoid of people like that, yet you do a lot of that. In the few LFR runs I have done, I have had negative experiences. Just trying to get the Azshara took a couple hours the other night as tanks came and left mid fight. People wasting time pulling when we only had one tank or people pulling early and causing a wipe.
Quit trying to make this a M+ issue just because it’s something YOU don’t like. You have put in the absolute minimum effort in this game, so quit acting like your experience is a universal one.
How is this different then Mythic raiding?
This thread is still going? lol
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But It’s not. Adding an a timer to an objective and saying “If you don’t get this done in the time with 5 other people, there will be negative consequences” makes people anxious, that’s a fact. Obviously it depends on how much time is on the timer and how close it will be cut, but the less time the more likely it is to be.
It is a fact.
I don’t think that word means what you think it means.
So you’re telling me psychologically humans enjoy failing and facing negative consequences? Because if so, you’re wrong.
That’s already been made obvious by my very first comment…?
It’s not MY idea. It’s a rule of thumb for all humans. Telling someone if they don’t do something in a specific time otherwise they’ll face negative consquences is negative. That’s a fact. Humans don’t enjoy negative outcomes, that’s a fact. It’s basic psychology, kiddo.
Yup…that’s what I’ve pretty much stated…
You said it was about half of your experience before, so? What is it? An uncommon one or it happens half the time?
You honestly think there’s anyone who’s NEVER done a timed key EVER and actually plays the game? You really are special…
This is so completely irrelevant? It’s silly. That’s like saying “Timed cooking shows where people are irritable / anxious because they have 30 minutes to make a dish are so ridiculous. People are irritable everywhere in life it doesn’t matter”
Because It’s common sense? 
Cool story, bro?
That’s very nice, dear.
And? All I stated was that negative stuff makes people anxious and upset, that’s a FACT.
You’re comparing two completely different things and saying “See?! It’s in here, too!” It’s so completely irrelevant it’s a complete joke that you’re even bringing it up.
I’ll be free to state my opinion on whatever I please, thank you very much.
Please stop acting like my opinion is the ONLY opinion that matters in the world and get over yourself…?
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That is subjective. That is YOUR experience and YOUR opinion. There is nothing factual about it.
No, I’m saying having a timer associated with the completion of key isn’t a negative experience. I’m not getting anxiety or stressing about not finishing a key. It happens. That is a part of the normal experience doing keys.
It’s no different then having a timer on for some cookies in the oven. You get X amount of time and then you’re done. If you completed in time, great. If not, you start over on a lower key or trying something else. I don’t even leave the timer open for a lot of my runs. There is no point in watching it. You either complete it in time or you don’t. If I do leave the timer open, it’s about pacing and strategy. Knowing I need to hit certain points and certain times.
If I don’t, I don’t. You are continuing to try and force YOUR experience on this. That is how YOU feel doing keys. Go watch some of the top streamers. No one is getting stressed out on every key. The timer is just there. It’s a part of the experience, but it’s not the only thing that matters.
Kiddo. That about sums you up. I’m likely older then you, so I guess I’ll take that as a compliment.
It is your idea. I don’t find it stressful. Now what?
I didn’t.
No. You just don’t do the content but want to sit here and act like you do. You are only here to argue. That’s it.
M+ is something I’m invested in and is something I enjoy. It’s not something you do on almost any level, yet you want to tell me about the experience I’m having.
That… doesn’t sound odd to you?
That is your reality. Negative stuff in life is what shapes us. It’s quite honestly what makes us stronger and smarter. Negative stuff CAN be bad, but it can also be good. You fail, you dust yourself off, you do it again. That’s how you succeed in life. If that hasn’t been your experience, not really sure what to say. Try more.
It’s not irrelevant to the original comment. You said it makes people rude. I’m saying that rude people exist in all forms of content.
I’m not. Since you want to respond to me, is it problematic I respond to you?
So, ditto?
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Yes, It’s MY opinion that humans don’t enjoy negative things…as is the opinion of everyone else with a brain. Just because It’s not “If you don’t finish this key you’ll literally die” doesn’t mean it doesn’t have an affect on people.
Neither am I?
LOL, what?! NO It’s not! It’s NOTHING like that, haha.
It’d be more like “You have X amount of time to make some cookies, if you fail you don’t get anything. If you do it, you’ll win $100!”
So what part of baking cookies is this like? LOL
Buddy…I’m not doing anything other than stating my opinion. You’re the one going off the deep end here.
Yes, I’m the only human being in the world who doesn’t enjoy negative consequences. You got me.
It’s not my idea, It’s fact. Just because the outcome of not finishing on time isn’t extreme, doesn’t mean it doesn’t affect people. If someone were to hold a gun to your head and say they’re going to shoot you if you don’t complete the run on time you’d still be affected, just more so.
Uh, I literally said I don’t like the content, I’ve actively been saying multiple times that I choose to not do it anymore. Nowhere have I acted like that…at all. Stop making things up.
That’s 100% fine, people are more than welcome to enjoy M+
If It’s good, then It’s no longer negativ-…do you even read what you say?! You’re a joke lol…
You realize raider I/O and judging people on content they’ve done has increased due to M+ right? Instead of helping people now a days It’s “You suck and on’t know what you’re doing, I don’t want to play with you” that’s rude. It may be because that person doesn’t want to waste time, which is completely fine, but that’s still rude.
Not really, but you started by talking to me. I’m merely finishing.
You are straight up trolling now. That is literally what you have been arguing this entire time.
That is… exactly what it is for me. That IS an opinion. If you watch the clock, that’s on you.
Because it’s trivial. It happens. You fail some keys. You move on. I’m not going to sit and dwell on it. You start over and try again. The timer failing is a non issue. It’s not a stressful experience.
It’s your opinion that it’s a negative experience. Now what. If that’s what you want to dwell on, by all means.
You are really trying to complicate this. Negative experiences can lead to positive outcomes. That is exactly what I was saying. Negative stuff CAN be bad, but it can ALSO be good. As in, in the end, the sum of the experience can be a positive one.
That is how life works. A struggle point in life can be negative, but the end result can be a positive one. Tearing a muscle to make it stronger.
You realize you said it was irrelevant and now you’re changing the topic instead of owning the comment.
People were judging players before raider I/O was a thing. When I was pugging in Wrath I looked at every players achievements before I invited them. That’s all raider I/O is. That has been a component of the game long before M+ was a thing.
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That’s fine, you’re just wrong. Running a timed run with a win or lose outcome based on finishing it in time is NOTHING like baking cookies…at all. You choosing to do easy keys to the point that the time clearly doesn’t matter and saying “That’s how it is for everyone” is hilarious, though.
Yes, failing a key is a negative experience. Dealing with angry people is a negative experience. Dealing with people complaining about everything is a negative experience. These things are factually negative.
That gives you mythic raid loot if you fail a 10.
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