M+ is the best thing to happen to 5 man PVE content. Heck I did a 16 this week (not within time) and timed 2 14s. Not to mention the 11s and 12s. Just because you don’t like more difficult content and want us to go back to the dungeons are worthless after a week, doesnt mean the rest of us do.
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I don’t think you read any of my posts properly. I specifically said in my OP that I understand M+ is fun for some people and I’m not asking for it to be removed.
Which is exactly what I want them to do. They need to create more 5 mans every patch. They need to put useful, appropriate ilvl gear, patterns etc in them. They need to ensure they are challenging.
Mechagon is a good example of where they almost got it right. The fact you can do it normal or via activated hard mode is great. I thoroughly enjoyed working with my guildies to get the mount.
However, as with most of BFA they got the reward structure wrong. The hardmode bosses still drop 415 ilvl gear, which is way too low considering you can fail a m+ 10 and get 445. This is more a reflection on how M+ is too rewarding though I guess.
If they can ensure they add a couple of “mechagons” every content patch, rebalance the risk/reward system to be more appropriate and give use good reasons to farm the instances (patterns, drops, vp/jp etc etc) then they’ll go a long way to making the game more fun again.
Pretty much the opposite of what I wrote.
This didn’t happen in vanilla/tbc/wrath. Dungeons were quite relevant until you were decked in raid tier. But this is an issue with the current gearing system that literally throws raid gear at you for not doing raid content ie drawing circles in the ground.
Maybe it didn’t happen for you is what you should say. This was not my experience at all. The only reason I did heroics past that first month were for frozen orbs of for some daily/weekly quest, which is as artificial as it gets. Made already boring content worse.
Once Nax was available, there was little reason to return to any of the dungeons. As the expansions progressed, there was even less of a reason. You didn’t even need to take alts into heroics.
So literally not an issue of M+ at all.
This is an entirely different discussion that has nothing to do with M+.
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M+ is the biggest symptom of the bad gearing system.
By the time Nax was out it was basically the end of the road.
I’ve raided endgame since vanilla(in the same guild of which I am GM), and dungeons were always a big part of the process. For various reasons depending on the expansion, but things like rep, patterns and even gear. We’d often run instances such as Shadow Lab, Mechanar etc
Again, the more raid gear you got the less relevant they became, but it was still a big part especially in the first half of the expansion.
Which fails on so many levels. I have not ran a single dungeon in forever it seems. I get my gear from raiding. You know the content that should reward the best gear.
Yes OP!!! So much this. Stop catering to one part of the playerbase and make content for us ALL!!!
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It’s fine if you want to argue that, but you really have to build that out more.
M+ isn’t in contention with the normal system for gear. A player can progress through heroics and raid without needing to do M+ for gear. The issue isn’t something that M+ has created.
?
It was the first raid of a long expansion.
Again, none of that has anything to do with M+.
That is not an experience everyone shares. Even when I was playing in BC, I wasn’t farming heroics to get into a raid. I got the basic set of gear then stepped into the easiest raid available.
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Bad gearing system…you mean warforge titanforge and sockets…and don’t even get me started on Benthic.
It was the last raid of Vanilla before it was relaunched in Wrath.
I don’t see how you weren’t running dungeons for pre-raid gear, rep etc unless you only started playing BC towards the latter half of the expansion.
To be honest, I want to fall down three times fighting through content that’s just a little hard for me, but the current model strongly does not want me to do that.
I feel like… WoW wants me to farm rather than adventure, if that makes sense?
I know. Context.
It was on the latter half. That was the point. There was 0 need to run them. Dead content was dead.
In regards to your comment about them being useless for you after first week/month.
Looking at your armory, you are pushing 20+ keys and 441 ilvl. Your dedication to play is probably higher than 99% of the people in the game. So saying they are useless after the first week is probably honestly a “you” problem.
To get an idea of how the majority of people play this game, think of LFR. Think about how on WQ bosses 90% of people you see seem to have no idea what an interrupt button is. That’s the more average audience of WoW.
Your play experience (judging from the armory) is no where close to “the norm”. You are making accusing one person’s experience as not being correct and neglecting to realize you are doing the same thing. You are probably like me (and I’m doing much lower content than you) where the people you normally play with create an echo-chamber.
Step outside the echo-chamber and you will find that you are indeed in the minority.
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that and mechagon. i hope to see more “big” 5-mans like that in the future. i would also like to see resource management become a thing again. nobody runs out of mana or has to stop and recover anymore. every now and then a healer will need a break for 15 seconds to drink, when it used to be everyone stopped to recover after every pull unless you just grossly overgeared the place
Their IO score has them in the top 100 players so id say they’re the really HC of players doing it. Personally once you hit the 1000+ range in time you’re in the semi hardcore range. Which isn’t even that difficult to do.
5 mans never left. Just stop playing after M0, cuz that literally is the old model.
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The old model didn’t also reward you with better gear from trivial tasks such as drawing circles in the ground or torpedoing turtles. So it literally is nothing like the old model.
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Oh so you complaint is World Quests and other methods to gear up. Sure, but that’s not a M+ problem is it. (And sure, up all mythic rewards by another 15 and that’s fine with me). And isn’t operation mechagon exactly what you wanted too? (I didn’t bother, I get better gear in m+ one week after that launched, wasn’t worth my time to learn to tank it).
Sounds to me like you want the dungeon experience from the first few weeks of an expansion to last the entire expansion. Not possible. The rewards stop being worth it with power creep, so running the dungeon in a methodical, learning experience tactical way becomes definitely not worth it time-wise.
Towards the end of Legion, even Seat of the Triumvirate was just a gogogozerg experience.
I do admit that targeting loot used to be a lot more fun. I remember farming TOC for the heart trinket. Was super happy once I finally got it.
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Yeah, I hate timed content in any form. All mythic + did was compound people to be even bigger jack asses than previously thought possible.
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I love every bit of what the Op said. The challenge needs to be in the content and the mechanics and the tactics needed. Not in some timer forcing you to zerg rush.
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