I loath all the Diablo that has been shoved into the game by the D3 devs. They didn’t give a single thought as to how those systems would just completely suck for a MMO.
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Would you like M+ more if it wasn’t the second main gear source? I honestly think M+ could be a real step up to challenge mode and offer seasonal rewards with a arena style ranking system built into the game so players don’t have to rely on third party websites.
Edit: The fact that players feel like their forced to run it to get trinkets etc, i feel really hurt the system as a whole. I honestly like the premise of M+, i just feel like blizzards execution of it has been pretty bad.
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M+ should have not been part of the gear treadmill. It has bloated everyone’s ilevel too. As an avid pvper having to run M+ to stay competitive has sucked pretty bad.
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Agreed, also titanforging doesn’t help either but thats a entirely different discussion.
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WoW was always a casual MMO. This push to make levels of difficulty only a few people can part take of just doesn’t make sense. The small vocal minority on the forums will say otherwise.
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M + can be good if they remove the timer part…it’s feels so rushed that it switches me off and maybe others too
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I mean yeah, but should blizzard just not make content for the hardcore player base? I don’t think that’s the solution you want. The hardcore player base is as important as the casual player base. That being said for m+, players could improve to reach those heights. M+ is no where near as hard as Mythic raids.
Its just the community surrounding m+ tends to be pretty toxic, but if your doing it with your friends M+ can be really fun. If that’s your thing, wow’s a game for many. Its only natural that players won’t like some aspects of it.
I don’t think you need to go to the levels of M+ almost endless scaling though. TBC heroics was the perfect difficulty imo.
M+ was added to push e-sports and an attempt at retaining players who burn through content like locust. Personally, I think the older versions did this quite well because gear didn’t rain down from the sky. Chasing gear on reasonable difficulty levels was just better for everyone imo.
You didn’t have the divide in the player base like you have now. M+ has been horrible for the community.
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Honestly for me i disliked the older dungeons, i felt like once i got what i needed out of it it just became pointless to touch that content again. I feel like M+'s positive is that its created a system where dungeons are relevant all the way through an expansion, where as older dungeons became even more irreverent the later into a expansion they got.
Sure m+ can be seen as a push for E-sports, its the same as to what happened with arenas. Yet i haven’t heard anything negative about that? Just my two cents.
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This is good though. It pushes Blizzard to create new 5 mans. They have been so lazy in this department. Tricking people to run the same 10 dungeons for 2-3 years isn’t great for a themepark MMO like WoW.
The level of toxicity that has come from M+ alone is worth looking into a better system to entice people into running them.
Your main character should have an end point. This entire idea of endless scaling just sucks for MMOs it is a lazy to keep players chasing that carrot.
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I think the problem is if players reach the end they tend to stop playing, or for some they move over and start working on alts. I think it was okay to reach a end point in earlier expansions because there was other things to work on; that and PvP was a fun pass time. Blizzard has stripped alot of that away, so reaching the end point may actually lead to player loss.
Honestly the AP system is more of a carrot on the stick then M+ is, gear maxes out at around +10 so anything past that is really just rank driven. Which is why i would love to see how my idea holds up if it was actually put in place.
- Remove gear for M+ and make it drop regular ilvl loot
-This removes ilvl bloat
-Also removes the feeling of being forced to partake in m+ for rewards - Put into place a arena style rating system
-This could lead to a seasonal reward structure like challenge mode
-Would also be better since players don’t have to rely on third party websites/addons
This could also lead to a reduction in community toxicity that is surrounding M+, if the rewards are cosmetic by nature players won’t be feel forced that they have to part take in this content.
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Love this idea!!!
Just remove LFG, block anything and everything from showing Ilvl, loot, or progress other than Armory. Ban selling of all M+ runs and Mythic raid runs. Bring everything back to “LFG or LFM” type scenarios and the elitist will die down. Return to one group = one lockout, nothing based upon boss kill anymore. Force people to actually make choices more wisely, and invest more time in learning their classes. I had no issues with PUGs from TBC and WOTLK due to this. I PUG’d most of ICC 25M up to LK. That I had to take down with my guild.
If people are forced to take their lockout seriously they’ll play better. If this happens, your elite players will stay stuck within larger more content focused guilds. While your beginners-more serious players will actually learn and adapt with content. The entire community will improve entirely. Focus everything back to real consequenes, not just “Muh/ your IO score is too low even with 440 ilvl, or ima dip as soon as there’s one wipe.” Remove all the visibility, and force people to actually stay with guilds, or interact with their server or server group in a more positive way.
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Shattered Halls was awful.
I’ll agree with the others.
Sounds like you want “Classic WoW”
This was all you needed to say. But for some reason they had to create a difficulty level for dungeons that could be competitive. The MDI…
I do not like Mythic + and I can’t stand that a timer measures my success. Would simply be nice to be able to be rewarded for simply completing a difficult dungeon.
Maybe they just need to do away with keys. Let players set the difficulty level freely. I really don’t know what is the best option. I just know there has to be a handful of options better then what we have now.
M+ has been the best addition to the game in ages for many of us. I love Mythic plus and the strategies that people come up with. They are far more complex and interesting. The 5 man dungeons of the past were flat and one dimensional. Once you completed it… that was it.
I don’t get why people have this revulsion to content that actually scales somewhat. It gives so much life to the game. As you get better and improve your gear, you actually have content to continue to enjoy.
When I was a kid, I played a lot of the FF series RPGs. They were always enjoyable until I started to ‘out gear’ the content of the game. It FF3, you could farm out so much gear, by the time you got the end boss, it was a complete joke taking seconds to kill.
Why would anyone want to bring that style of play back? I honestly don’t understand it.
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The “scaling” is just +dmg and health. You run the same content over and over trying to beat a timer. None of the bosses drop loot, you can’t farm specific items and you get rewarded with better than heroic or mythic loot for failing.
It artifically “extends” content. Rather than Blizzard releasing multiple 5 man content each patch (which is harder), they just rely on everyone running the same instances all expansion.
You know what’s fun? Farming scholomance for dreadmist, skin of shadow, RotV pattern etc
You know what’s not fun? Running scholomance for 4 content patches where every run the mobs hit a little bit harder and have a little more health, where nothing drops any loot until a chest at the end that could be from anything in the entire instance.
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Blizzard can create dungeons that meet your requirements, M+ is a side thing that you don’t have to do. It doesn’t make sense to remove M+ from the game because some players don’t like it. I personally don’t like LFR, remove it from the game?
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Was that a counter to my comment? Honestly asking.
Heroics had an incredibly short life before M+. Once the first raid hit, there was little reason to go back. I’m sick of people arguing about this. Blizzard had to create reason to go back or the content just died.
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What is the issue with that? Blizzard has never released released multiple 5 man content with each patch. The largest I can even think of was in wrath near the end and most people ran those dungeons a couple times and that was it. They were always a stepping stone to raids.
That isn’t in conflict with an M+ style of system. Heroics can still exist at the same level of difficulty. That’s an entirely different issue.
So don’t do it. i’m assuming you don’t even run M+ because that argument makes no sense. M+ can exist on it’s own. It doesn’t need to take away from the experience players had in the past in any way. It’s another outlet to get gear IF you want.
You know what’s not fun? Out gearing heroic dungeons after the first or second week an expansion has been released. We aren’t even talking casual levels of play.
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