Can’t stand timewalking lul, if they made timewalking m+ that would be cool and actually make the gear relevant then maybe, that would at least increase the longevity of outdated content and give life to new content at the same time.
Hm. I have the 666th post. I am a Warlock. This is irony.
Anyways, the biggest issue I’ve found with 5 mans and with raiding is the completely stupid loot system. I don’t know who thought it was a good idea, but it was one of the worst. It incentivizes people to just drop groups if the mob doesn’t drop what they want, because it’s easier to pop back in que and continue hunting the item or it’s look alike in another dungeon.
Oh and don’t get me started on how lame (and I am convinced rigged) the “Bonus Roll” is. Azerite— roll— No, no, you think you want that, but you don’t. Here have more Azerite, or even better have this item you’ve already got.
I would love to go back to the Classic Loot system.
The current one for 5 mans is retarded.
1 Like
I pick up what the OP is setting down. Got a large group in my guild that love the M+ and seriously power to them, I do what I can to help them push as high as they can go.
But I’m running out of places in this game for ME to be.
The awful “gogogogo” mentality expansion after expansion after expansion, and now officially supported as an ‘esport’ has worn me out.
Only current patch Raids matter.
Crafting died side of the road somewhere way back.
I can fly now but I have nowhere to go.
Are you talking about m0 loot? When people are dropping group if an item doesn’t appear? I mean who does m0 unless you’re farming parts for the engineer mount or mounts in general seriously. M0 is a stepping stone to gear for m+, as far as people leaving while gearing up which I’m assuming the same as you, that happens everywhere and I’d just recommend making friends or joining a guild to do them with. People leave for any number of reasons, I usually give pugs a few chances if I’m not in the mood to regress on something I’ve already killed dozens of times. I rarely ever leave on a single wipe but it depends on how incompetent the group is to begin with and how bad the mistake was, also their attitude and the conversation before and after said wipe, if they clearly don’t have a clue it’s usually a good hint that the rest of the night isn’t going to go well either.
You’re obviously looking in the wrong places if you want to avoid the go go go mentality, I’ve joined plenty of guild groups that were clearly only interested in hanging out with eachother and slowly clearing content, most were even progressing through either normal or heroic raid. As far as m+ is concerned you don’t need to go go go to clear it and one chest it, hell you can even deplete it for the weekly chest and still get a free reward for not doing anything extra.
Crafting as it currently sits was amazing for 8.2 in particular gathering professions/cooking and inscription/black smithing. If you didn’t take advantage of the contracts or the water walking boots or other mount equipment, or farming materials to throw on the ah for an inflated price then that’s on you, the professions have lost their uniqueness like engineering and the only thing left unique about it is the mobile bank with jeeves. Otherwise you can purchase gliders, hammers and repairs etc. without having it.
People literally made millions of gold with the contracts at the start of 8.2 so as far as professions not mattering I don’t know what game you’re playing. I don’t much care for world quests/warfronts or doing casual content but you can fly through zuldazar/kultiras/nazjatar/mechagon and do that content even easier/faster than before. Although I only go for things I need like ap emissaries-islands or the quests needed to upgrade my essences, apparently a lot of players only play this game to do wq-warfronts so I’m sure if you’re one of those blizz has you covered.
1 Like
Could you use the space bar? That wall of text was a challenge to read.
Anyways, to get back to what I was saying. Yes that’s a part of it. But it goes deeper. Back in Vanilla you might not always get a item you could use, but you could be sure someone would. The way it is now? It’s pure trash. It tries to emulate the old loot system and somehow makes for a far more frustrating encounter. Doubly so if you are soloing or 3 manning a raid or dungeon from last expansion.
We need to have an option to turn on Legacy Loot rules. I don’t mind it being disable for LFG, but if I am running a guild group we should be able to decide what we want to do with any loot that drops independent of Blizzard’s Casino system, which as I said before I am convinced is intentionally rigged with hostile algorithims to ensure minimal payout, and maximum played time.
Oh and while I’m on the topic. The week-long lock on non-current expansion raids needs to die. Who cares if a person wants to run Antorus daily? Nerf Gold / and the loot’s selling value if that’s the big concern.
Edit: (Thanks for breaking things up some Sachi. ^^ )
1 Like
The problem which I don’t think was a problem in the first place is that guilds would take advantage of people applying for a raid slot, this is the story I read a few times.
Firstly if I was applying for a raid slot I wouldn’t expect loot in the first place as you’re there to prove your worth when it comes to mechanics/communication/team play and dps.
As far as the weekly lockouts, they’re fine as is. The thing with that is people would just farm the raids constantly until they had nothing else to do, the weekly lockout extends the life of the content which I don’t think bfa has much of to begin with even after 8.2.
I personally would like master looter back for those competent enough to use it and for those that have common sense to be wary of pugs using it, it isn’t rocket science.
As far as the gear is concerned though, gear is given out too freely and for little to no effort. It needs to go back to vanilla but with the spawn of the participation reward player I don’t think that’ll happen anytime soon.
I mean just look at the other forum posts of people complaining about not getting enough gear rewards when all they did was world quests/warfronts and skipped lfr/norm/heroic raid gear progression.
Or those that complain that the mobs on mechagon/nazjatar are too difficult to solo, well firstly this game isn’t a solo game even though BFA made it look like it was. I’m actually refreshed at how difficult some of the mobs are in the new zones.
This is how the game should be, the community will never be like it was back in vanilla but you could at least make gear and progression matter again. Acquiring that single upgrade in a month or a few months time it took you to get it in vanilla meant 10x more than the gear you get in BFA, it’s just another veiled crystal to me 95% of the time.
This topic right here is very important. They are crippling the game with this sort of content. M+ is a terrible solution to making people want to do 5 mans. They need to go back to their original gearing system from Vanilla-Cata. This personal loot RNG lootbox stuff is terrible. It is one of the biggest reasons I always just slow down on my play time as an X-pac rolls in and then I disappear for another year and a half. It’s not fun to play an MMO that makes you feel like you can pretty much just do everything Solo. If you want that kind of power go play a single player platform game.
3 Likes
It is what WoW players has become now. We rush on everything.
Look at we did in Beta Classic on Scarlet Monastery Cathedral. When we first did it at level 35, we were careful. CC here and there… kill 1 mob at a time. But when we reached level 40 and did it again, we speed run it. Tank started chainpulling without waiting for my Hunter to drink for mana. That’s how it is done nowadays.
I remember we did some CC on Atal’dazar and Shrine of Storms when we first did it at level 112 (first day of BFA). At level 120, no man… we will speedrun everything whenever we can. How old is WoW? Most of us has more than 10 years of dungeon experience in our belt.
What you want is actually in the game.
You are welcome to group with friends, or find a guild or community of like minded players (there seem to be many in this thread alone) and run dungeons as slow as you like with all the CC you like taking all the time, and putting in all the effort you like anytime you want.
If you want to live the “solo, PuG life”, however, you’re going to have to do it someone else’s way.
Nothing actually needs to be “brought back”. It never left. Different strokes for different folks and all that.
Thankyou for your insighful, well thought out comment that successfully completely(deliberately?) missed the point.
1 Like
I didn’t miss your point…
All of that is in the game…
Mythic 0 is “reasonably difficult”, depending on iLvl which was true even in previous expansions where instances were actually a bit difficult to start with (including early Cata 5 Mans…before the nerf). It also has no timer.
The M+ system keeps 5 Mans relevant beyond anything the game has ever seen until they were implemented. Not making the timer doesn’t keep you from being able to run them. Also, the timer is generally not so tight that no mistakes can be made at all or that you can’t use CC.
You can choose which dungeon you go to. You can queue for a specific instance instead of using the random queue. You can travel to the dungeon you want to enter and do so on any available difficulty. LFD is a convenience, it is not a requirement.
The last one, I will admit, is not in the game. There is no guarantee that if you kill a boss it will drop loot. And I get that AP every time doesn’t feel great. But there has never been a time when killing a boss guaranteed a loot drop.
I got your point just fine. And what you want is in the game.
The point is so far over your head it’s amazing. Nothing of what you said addresses my point at all. It’s like you’re just talking hoping you hit enough keywords.
This so much. 5 mans used to be my favorite form of PVE content. I even like the concept of increasing dungeon difficulty for higher rewards.
The fact that it is tuned to a timer makes it really unenjoyable. I have no problem with leaving the timers in for other rewards but the gogogogo aspect and the toxicity that goes with it has made dungeons a part of the game I just avoid if I have to.
I too miss the need to strategically cc rather than aoe Zerg every pack down. That was more challenging and enjoyable. Given the amount of likes to this post it makes me happy there are so many others who feel the same way.
So I’d just like to say that Mechagon is the perfect example of what I’m looking for. I want Blizzard to focus more on these type of dungeons and release more than 1 per expansion.
What I really don’t understand is why Mechagon is on a 1 week lockout, whereas M+ has no lockout and can be spammed, even though it also drops higher ilvl gear. Makes absolutely no sense, other than to ruin gear progression even more.
It was also only one layer of RNG. You target a boss and kill it, and hope it drops the thing you want. To get loot from M+, you have to:
-
Randomly roll the right dungeon
-
Randomly be selected for one of the two drops in the end chest
-
Randomly get the correct useful piece out of the entire dungeon’s drop table of assorted garbage
-
If you raid Mythic, that piece must additionally TF and/or socket
If any of those things fails to happen, you just wasted 30 mins of your life.
Frankly, I hate Mythic. I only did it once and got a toxic group. Just make dungeons a little harder and maybe put more emphasis on raids and maybe PvP.
2 Likes
That’s a chance at literally anything else you can group up for in this game, and is not limited to m+.
I know. I just don’t think that m+ has done very well. Also at this point it seems intimidating to try and get into dungeon timers and all that. Honestly, I’m surprised people do it, but eh.
1 Like
I wish WoW was more of a strategy game, but esports are all about action games. You may bring in a certain segment of players but how much replayability is there in action games compared to strategy games and what does that mean to the long term success of a title?