I understand where you are coming from, but the best option sounds like is to find 4 other folks like you, and run them at your own speed. The only thing the timer does is give you an extra loot item and improve your key.
I do however miss the old 5 mans like 45 minute baron run and the summonable bosses for 1.5 gear.
People still run them because what else are they going to do maybe? Or, most likely, alts.
So pretty much the only thing it does is gives you relevant rewards? Or can we now select what key level and dungeon we want to do in the new patch?
5 mans were a good way to socialize and goof off. Really, they need to tweak rewards and make it profitable and worth your time to run 5 mans again.
This would 100% something I’d be down for if someone ever made a comminity/guild for that sort of thing.
I’d honestly ditch the extra loot for being able to CaLmLy run dungeons with a group of people genuinely willing to strategise and improve on what they did wrong.
Remember heroics in TBC? Oh boy running in there and getting 3 shotted was quite a shock. The +defence was a great way to have tanks responsible of pulling. A dps pulling out of impatience would die fairly quick. CC was relevant and depending on the dungeons, we had some more focused on rogue/mage cc, warlock/priest cc, etc. Eventually we did outgear the content. But I would love to see a mythic + system rewarding damage control over crazy chain pulling.
Clean tactical organised pulling disappeared since Lich King. I know WoW is no Everquest, but I greatly miss that aspect of class identity and having a group able to maximise their toolbox to get through content.
How would they balance “relevant rewards” for non timed dungeons and M+ at the same time?
I don’t see the old dungeon feels happening in the future, unless you go play Classic when it comes out…
M+ races are a lot of fun for me. If they added non timed dungeons that gave good rewards, people would still speed through them and not care about what the group wants to do unless you didn’t pug it. M+ didn’t exist during Vanilla and I fondly remember the days of UBRS/LBRS… M+ is still fun for me after enjoying those days as a kid.
I played in WotLK and dungeons were fun. I do however enjoy M+ in its current state.
What i dont get is how come you cant just run a dungeon now and have a cup of tea between pulls if you want. The extra loot at the end is the reward for going fast. The normal rewards are there if you want to go get some Taco Bell after the first boss.
The issue with having loot drop off each boss becomes people will farm up to a boss they need and leave. Is that what your after? Groups getting disbanded after the 2nd boss because the Tank got the drop he needed?
Amazing post. I could had not said it better. This is the way it used to be at one time.
Then don’t. Find a group the just wants completion and complete it. You still get the same rewards, you just don’t get an upgraded key.
Edit: oops, necro’d thread.
Oh, so the key doesn’t downgrade now? Nice.
Nah, this has been an ongoing discussion since christmas!
If all you’re out for is the gear reward, downgrading doesn’t matter.
Impossible. All content becomes irrelevant through gear progression. 5 man content is inherently easier so without major limitations like Mythic+ has it would make all other content irrelevant. This is what happened with 10 man raids, it made anything larger irrelevant.
Also, dungeon complexity is in the game right now. Packs are designed to be pulled strategically, and CCed and interrupted. Chain CC and interupts are critical to pushing high level keys. The players are the ones who find ways around that, mostly by over gearing. The AOE pulls and rush mentality is 100% the players.
Plus, Strategizing about a mob pack pull only works the first time you do it, every other time you just repeat what you already did, which surprise, surprise is faster than the first time and requires no strategizing. Soon, everyone learns the strategies thus the gogogo attitude is reborn mere weeks after new content is released.
Imo, Mythic+ is about the only way you can keep 5 man content relevant without destroying everything else in the game. The average dungeon length could be a bit shorter, though. A long dungeon timer should be 35 minutes with average at 25 tops. But instead like every dungeon is nearly 40 minutes which is exhausting, imo.
How is this accomplished? The only way for loot to be relevant is to be competitive. The only way for loot to be competitive is for it to be on par with other sources of loot. AKA Heroic and Mythic Raiding for high M+ difficulties.
Boggles my mind how for years, people demanded alternate ways to gear up outside of raiding. Now that we have them, everyone just pouts that raiding isn’t important anymore because the rewards aren’t completely exclusive.
It’s a shame people have developed this mentality that timers are the only way to judge reward.
Slowly trekking through big vanilla dungeons watch such an enjoyable experience. BC heroics were really awesome at the start when you had to really build a team with the proper CC and approach for bosses. WotLK and Cata were also pretty engaging but as they adopted tier raids near the end they seemed to ease off the dungeons more. Kara 5man with its Nightbane challenge and the coming Mechagon all are so nice. It’s sad they haven’t adopted the m+ scaling dungeons to these adventurous slow paced experiences.
They could obviously make it less rewarding than timed versions but having the option for keys to improve and not be punished for choosing this route would be great for Blizzard to implement. Most people who try these no timed chill runs usually just avoid the experience because of all the punishment Blizzards system adds to those trying this playstyle.
Well for starters M+ should have a weekly lockout like raiding. It’s a joke you can continually farm them for high level gear.
Than make them, easier?
Doing a +10 one week is super easy, the next is super “Never going to touch that dungeon” and when you get stuck with that key you can either hope for someone to let you go with them or not do it.
So if you want to lock them out give us a key we can use on any dungeon, remove the timer, change the requirements to push your key level higher and allow for higher difficulties to give a higher drop chance at loot regardless of anything.
The Nascar mentality is one thing that really turns me off doing anything with randoms. I miss the pushing people from regs to heroics to raids to heroic raids.
I don’t disagree with the fun/difficult dungeon experience you describe. However, no matter how well you craft and tune the dungeon, player power progression will make it obsolete in the span of a single tier.
Mythic+ isn’t perfect but its gone along way to keeping dungeons relevant.
Also Timewalking kind of scratches the itch you describe. Again its far from perfect, but gear levels are normalized so you can’t aoe pull everything (much to the dismay of many DH tanks that weren’t around in BC/WotLK). They’ve tinkered with the tuning, starting out on the near impossible for a pug level of difficulty and pretty damned easy of late. They want people to do the content. Maybe they need a Heroic option for timewalking. Harder, no timer required, better loot.
It really doesn’t. Poor loot, poor tuning and the simple fact is I ran all those dungeons to death in their relevant expansion.