M+ has ruined dungeons. Hopefully the new mechagon one will be good and a sign of the end of m+.
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Just completely inaccurate. JP/VP’s kept 5-mans relevant through entire expansions. Mythic+ has completely ruined one of the aspects of the game I loved the most. I don’t even run dungeons unless i absolutely have to. I would rather run LFR 10 times in a row than run a mythic+. Sadly, the mentality has infected every other diffulty level too. It seems as though my dungeon-fiending days are over.
You are right. JP/VP gave an incentive to repeatedly do brain dead and trivial content. Over and over and over and over and over again.
Sorry. I must have blocked that from my memory.
I really hope we don’t go back to the days of only having brain dead trivial dungeons to do, on repeat. For currency.
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So from these 600+ replies did someone actually put forth an alternative that allows a ‘challenging’ non-timed dungeon design that can’t be easily brute forced through the use of multiple tanks or healers ?
I’m glad you don’t make game decisions. Your sense of ‘fun’ is not shared by everyone. Go back and read this thread…dungeons used to be hard. They used to take time. They used to need strategy. We’ve gone completely away from that now, and even in a normal dungeon people act like they have better things to do than run a dungeon. If you find it brain dead and trivial…don’t run them. I find mythic+ mentality toxic…so i don’t run them. See how easy that is?
Also, the ‘currency’ was for targeting specific pieces of gear. You prefer the slot machine we have now on speed runs? To each their own i guess.
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If you think modern dungeons aren’t hard or need strategy…or take time. Then I can only surmise you aren’t actually participating in modern dungeons.
You can not like current m+, but at least don’t be so blatantly dishonest.
M+ offers infinite challenge, regardless of skill. And definitely takes time, require strategy, and are difficult.
I’m going to be brutally honest, even without timers, some players would fail M+ really hard.
The timer is only there if you care to push keys and push yourself as a player and as a group, and for your IO score/achievements. If the timer is such a problem there are solutions to that, such as making your own group, or looking through dungeon group finder for completion keys. M+ offer those difficult pulls where CC is required, I feel like people are being dishonest with themselves, to be frank.
This “gogogo” mentality is more present in Heroic dungeons/M0s, and while still there for M+ (somewhat), you can’t brute force your way through a M+ depending on the group’s overall skill and the affixes.
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You’re entitled to your opinion, no matter how false it might be. AoE blasting through a dungeon in under 10min is not difficult. Adding more trash and a timer for mythic+ may offer an infinite challenge for you, but for me it’s simply laziness on the design. Look back to Grim Batol as an example. That was a tough dungeon when it came out…so hard that people screamed for the nerf bat. And got it.
I don’t like mythic+, so i don’t run them. They’re enjoyable for you…awesome. Stick with them…I really don’t care and I’m not suggesting they be removed. But I’d love to see difficult and worthwhile normal/heroic dungeons come back without an artificial timer attached to them.
It was tough when it came out, but after that there’s no challenge. At least M+ have different affixes to add some challenge to them every week and key levels.
Only way to make dungeons challenging without timers and affixes would be to make mobs and bosses do more damage/have more hit points, but I’m fairly certain some people would even fail those.
I think “difficult” 5 mans is one of those myths people have made up. 5man dungeons were never difficult before M+, yes even the Cata Heroics before the nerf were not hard. People just made them hard because dungeon rewards so quickly became irrelevant that no one ever invested the time to actually learn the dungeons and as soon as people out geared them they stopped doing them.
You’re essentially asking for a system that has never existed in the game. Challenging 5man content that gives relevant rewards without being tied to a timer, would be a different thing they haven’t done yet. Is it worth doing? Maybe, but seeing how overwhelmingly popular M+ has been a system like that is too close to M+ to be worthwhile doing.
You know what else would be an overwhelmingly popular system? Clicking the mailbox in Orgrimmar once a day and getting a mythic raiding quality piece of loot. I reckon it’d have close to 100% participation.
Doesn’t make it fun or a good system.
Clearly never did Shattered Halls, Scholo, UBRS, Shadow Lab etc
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Weird, my experience in Vanilla, TBC, Wrath and Cata, people ran dungeons much longer than 2 weeks into an expansion.
I remember a lot of casual players running Vanilla dungeons for months on end to get their dungeon sets. People ran TBC heroics for months as well maybe even longer and even with raid geared toons, TBC heroics still presented a challenge.
Again, this statement about dungeons being irrelevant after 2 weeks into an expansion is such a exaggeration. Sure, hardcore raiders will out gear this content fast, but for most casual players this content lasts much longer.
Even in BFA, there are people still running normal and heroic dungeons, if they are irrelevant, then why are people still running these difficulties?
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You clearly aren’t talking about m+ here. So I am not sure what you are talking about.
Thats fine you don’t like m+. Just be accurate when you bash them. ![:man_shrugging:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/man_shrugging.png?v=6" ":man_shrugging:")
Because its typically alts that haven’t outgeared them yet? Which is clearly what I was referring to.
After you outgear a non mythic+ dungeon (which has an incredibly low bar to do so), there is no reason to go back.
With mythic+ there is.
Again, you are basing your opinion on the lens in which you play the game through. I’m not going to go down that rabbit hole of arguing about M+ again because you have regurgitated your opinion on this in so many of these threads.
I’d like to play the role of Mr. Obvious on this one and say it again, dungeons have always been relevant longer than 2 weeks after an expansion launch. Older versions of the game had even more dungeon longevity too.
Dungeons becoming irrelevant after 2 weeks was only an issue for a very small set of players.
Off topic though, I’d much rather dungeons just go back to providing a reasonable difficulty and just be a stepping stone for gearing for raids again.
Edit: I actually looked you up on raiderio and you haven’t touched M+ since March 2019. You defend this content but you are not even actively taking part in it lol. You haven’t downed a raid boss in 4 months too. Maybe you need to spend more time in game instead here defending the lousy choices Blizzard has made the last 3 expansions.
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I think we should just make mythic + unrwarding or just remove it.
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Wow…a lot of word salad here to sort out. Let’s just leave it at this - you like mythic+ and find anything less to be useless. Terrific. Have at it. Have a great time.
I don’t. I’m not trying to stop you. I just wish that the mythic+ timer mentality hadn’t infected so many other parts of WoW, like normal/heroics, LFR, Islands, WF’s, etc. There hasn’t been any part of my statements that are inaccurate, and additionally I have never stated that I demand change…only that I would love to see difficult dungeons return which require thought and planning. Chain-pulling to beat a timer just doesn’t do it for me.
Dungeons used to be difficult for a large chunk of players whether you believe it or not. People used to run them long after they out-geared them. Not alts…mains. People used to keep running them so much that you could chain run dungeons all night to VP cap or just pass time…or at least with a very short wait in the queue. That was one of my favorite ways to spend a non-raid night, so I speak form experience. It was fun, and fun keeps me playing this game even when it’s in short supply.
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God I HATE it when those players come into classic 5 man runs.
They ruin everything they touch.
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Don’t waste your time with this one, he will argue with you until you will want to gouge your eyeballs out lol.
I know his posts are opinions, but a lot of them are border line spam at this point. 10k posts is just sad. He spends more time playing the forums than the actual game.
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M+ timer mentality didn’t infect the rest of the game, that’s people who want to get things done quickly because they value their time differently than some others do, and be efficient about it, or because the content is trivial to them.
They were only challenging if you were grouped with people who weren’t fully familiar with them, or undergeared, which is still true today with BfA dungeons, which have more mechanics to them than dungeons back in BC. Normal/heroic right now are trivial because most players overgear it or are made too easy.
You also mention the valor points but if the dungeons were so great and challenging, would people still run them even without currency such as VP being awarded?
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You obviously missed early cata when Stoncore was the pug breaker or ZA and ZG when 1sr released as 5m dungeons after being raids, also BRD in vanilla UBRS SCHOLO STRAT. I hear H BC dungeons was also like this but i missed that experience. They were extremely difficult dungeons where 1 mistake could wipe you but they weren’t a race against the clock
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