I think mythic+ is just a symptom of a greater problem with the game.
It all boils down to value.
If you want a more fulfilling gaming experience then individual value has to be set aside in favor of the whole. That is difficult to do in a very casual relationship that is endorsed by this notion of doing a dungeon so that a person can go open his very own treasure chest at the beginning of the reset week. You are detaching the reward from the group. It wasn’t just obtaining an item that was rewarding. There was a shared camaraderie in overcoming a challenge and distributing the spoils.
What is happening is people don’t care about their contributions to the group. They care insofar as what it yields for them. The game is encouraging a very selfish style of play. Humans do not need encouragement to be selfish. They need structure to achieve things greater than themselves.
When a game fails to provide the ability to shepherd people in a way that the whole achieves more - you end up in a very disassociated/disaffected population. Instead of rejoicing in the team’s success, players see their contemporaries as opponents. This is indeed the disease that is killing the community and thereby killing group content.
If you want more out of the game, then do away with the systems that have placed too much emphasis on the individual. United with stand, divided we fall.
Community: Please we don’t like a lot of Adds/Trash.
Blizzard: New Mythic+ Season 2 --> * Every 20% on the Enemy forces bar, Bwonsamdi will resurrect spirits of all the trash creatures you had killed up to that point and they will charge at you no matter where you’re at. This happens a total of 5 times per dungeon.
This is your nostalgia speaking. I’ve played since vanilla and I assure you there was nothing fun about slogging through ubrs/Lbrs, heroic shattered halls, dire maul, what-have-you and the likes for an hour or longer. Sure it was fun the first few times, new and engaging and all. Even a little bit challenging at times. Your desire for 5mans to be how they were is literally the nostalgia seeping out of you. Good thing classic is this summer. I’ll be trying it out myself at least for a little bit.
Because it’s awesome fun running the same gogo timer in m+ all the time right? You’re repeating content either way, except at least the old way didn’t have a timer or a bunch of cancerous un-fun affixes.
Also, every boss dropped loot. And that loot wasn’t random (other than within the 1 bosses loot table).
Speak for yourself. This is what made it so fun. It was an actual adventure you had to prepare for even if slightly marginally by making sure you have a couple hours to run through. Dying was a big deal because you had a long corpse run to get back. You didn’t just die and be popped right at the entrance with no real consequence. You did everything meticulously the first few times, then once you caught on the groove for trash in a dungeon you could streamline your run throughs WITHOUT the need of some timer rushing you along. You learned and explored at your own pace.
I think it would be neat to have a “Hardcore” mode after Mythic difficulty.
Scale the loot up to 370 (or S2 equivalent). Scale the dungeon up to Fort/Tyrannical +15 key level. Remove the timer and add a stipulation of no deaths allowed, or set a cap on avoidable damage taken. Some kind of bar anyways. Hell you could even set separate caps on things per class (Healers can’t let anyone fall under X%/Tanks can’t pull less than X mobs at a time/DPS can’t stand in bad more than X times/etc). If said bar is met, the dungeon fails.
This would offer M+ key level loot, dump the timer in favor a more heavily strategized plays and still reward you without just giving away gear. You’d have to actually be good to complete it.
Alternatively if you just want to run the dungeon at your own leisure and still obtain the same level of gear - sure, why not? Just scale it up to a 20 key with both fort and tyrannical modifiers. Scrap the timer and just let people complete.
That it’s too hard for them to do and that makes them feel bad?
That instead of pushing them to get better it just makes them salty and look for something other than themselves to blame?
The timer is inelegant but it’s the best way to, on a very high level, say “you’re not playing well enough to win”.
The only other way to effectively send that message to players in the game is by making things so brutally difficult that they can’t be completed.
Would you rather have timed (but easier) content or would you rather be in a world where you can only go up to a +4 because you just literally cannot beat the bosses without being able to do X DPS and Y Healing.
You can’t have it both ways where the timer is removed but the difficulty and rewards remain the same.
This, so much this. I want to play wow. Not watch YouTube and copy someone else. I want to figure out how to do something, and when it goes wrong that’s part of the fun, the adrenaline rush.
All these add-ons that are available. Makes me wonder if people actually play or if their add-ons play for them.
I was intimidated by the timer for maybe my first 3 M+, and then I realized you can just ignore it and run the dungeon. The mode you are all seeking is already in the game (M+).
You can go spend 3+ hours in a tough M+ if you want to. In fact, I recommend you do if you don’t know all the mechanics of the dungeon. Then next time you go run it, it probably won’t take you 3 hours to complete, since you’ve learned how it works.
Eventually you will be approaching beating the timer, and when you finally do your going to be ecstatic.
Ok, from all the other post about people that dislike M+ this is one of the most reasonable ones I’ve found… In my opinion M+ is great, sure it has some issues but overall I really enjoy it… However it’s definitely not catered to everyone in the game and I do see room for an additional option for dungeons.
So while I agree something could be added to make dungeons as the OP want it’s not so much “bringing back” anything, in the past dungeons were never relevant once you started getting raid gear. So in my opinion it would be something totally new… Or there’s another alternative that I believe would re-capture the experience the OP wants:
In terms of difficulty, I see someone brought up the cata heroics but they were not that hard you just did them in low lever gear, once you had raid gear they were really easy… If you go do current M0 at sub-320 item level it’s more or less the same difficulty, the reason they stayed relevant for longer than the current M0 dungeons is simply because you would not overgear them so quickly and you actually needed Raid gear to do so, as opposed to now where you easily move 30item levels ahead of the dungeons so ofc they become irrelevant very quickly.
Honestly if all the free loot from warfronts, emmisaries, titan-forging, and all of those things went away then M0 dungeons would feel like cata heroics and even M+ would become much more approachable since players would start at +2 and get upgrades form it rather than needing a +10.
Your right on the money here. The biggest issue is people don’t see value from going and learning the content at the appropriate rate, since they think they already out gear said content. Instead they feel that hey, I’m 370 and this instance drops 370, so why can’t I faceroll this like my emissaries, warfronts, and world bosses.
Kara wasn’t difficult and you’re still wrong on the basics. Without a timer the dungeons are incredibly easy and will make class imbalance much, much worse. If you don’t know how this works I won’t explain it to you again.