You seem to be taking the news well.
Any strategy that requires you to CC everything makes it completely brain dead comtent.
You whined about people being driven away from the game if you don’t get your way. I don’t think they will but I also don’t care if they do.
“Waaa waaa I’m going to make a straw man that says the reason I’m wrong is that you have an ego waaa” <— good luck with that
Making different progression paths affects every player. They already give out way too much gear for practically no effort. It isn’t like you guys are actually capable of earning comparable gear to m+ if they could (and they can’t) balance slow slow slow slow dungeons with m+. You think you can do hard content, but you can’t.
M+ and raids are boring as-islands
The reason people wanted Cata 5-mans nerfed is because their rewards were complete garbage for what they were.
I suspect mythic plus dungeons have a large number of people doing them, not a ‘minority’ of players. The type of dungeons you want already exist in the game as well, however, you don’t seem to recognize they are already there.
OK. So the dungeons are all still there. You can run them if you want.
But there’s something odd about what’s happening at the moment. Heroic dungeons have become just like normal dungeons… a little bump in the road. You do them for a very brief period, then apparently you’re supposed to move on to M+ dungeons for the rest of the xpac. Which is fine, if you LIKE M+ dungeons. But it’s not so fine if your preferred difficulty is heroic dungeons.
It shouldn’t be this way, IMO. Sure, normal dungeons should have a short period of relevancy, but heroic dungeons should be the natural dungeon of choice for casual players of average skill for most of the xpac, with M+ dungeons being targeted at the most skilled players. M+ should be a challenge mode, not what everyone is doing on a weekly basis.
So, three things are happening, IMO:
I mostly agree with what you are saying, though in your scenario you would remove mythic 0 altogether and just have normal / heroic / +
I’m not sure how I feel about that - I do think there are too many difficulty levels across dungeons and raids and they could quite possibly be consolidated. I’m quite happy for normal dungeons to be pushover difficulty levelling fodder.
I think I want dungeons to be an alternative pre-heroic raid gearing path, with mythic (non+) being an alternate end game progression path, though probably not to mythic raid gear level (same with M+).
I think you’re right in that a lot of the issue is how high level gear is rained down upon you at a ridiculous rate. Warfronts dropping 370/385 gear is a joke. Alliance-only PVP quest rewarding 370 gear is a joke. World quests TFing gear up to heroic/mythic ilvl is a joke.
Not true. The main thing people complained about was that they were too difficult and caused too many wipes. The forums were full of cries for a nerf. A very loud chunk of people didn’t like wiping and spending 30-45min in a dungeon. Groups would regularly disband in the middle of a dungeon. I can’t tell you how many times I saw people just leave on the Drahga Shadowburner/Valiona fight in Grim Batol after 1 or two tries. The rewards were fine…at least then you knew what piece of gear you were running it for, plus you earned JP’s/VP’s.
Indeed. The problem with WoW’s current design paradigm is that its done in a way that there are few places where players can fail. Cata dungeons were nerfed despite them being Blizzards “return” to classic style dungeon difficulty because some players just could not deal with the bruised egos that came with failing. I loved Cata dungeons at the expansions release.
This is good and bad. Good in that I certainly don’t want to group with a tank who just dinged 120 by leveling through Islands. Bad in that I am not a fan of removing player choice, although in this particular instance given the reason I pointed out, this may be for the best in this case.
There will always be a cap. The M+ mode is designed to force you to stop at some point. Now, if certain Affix combinations cause that cap to be lower, then I’m okay with that. There’s nothing that keeps anyone from doing a 10 (where you get your chest reward) weekly no matter the Affix combination.
If there was no M+ no one would do dungeons, people like trying to do bigger and better keys, no one would do dungeons look at past expansions as proof they scale badly.
They are either too easy or too hard for the loot they drop and if they were meant to be hard and compete with heroic raids they would have loot being useless because if 5 man content gives same loot as raids no one does raids that is why M+ is so RNG with the loot to keep raids vaible.
THANK YOU for getting this right. People doing the Could not care less phrase incorrectly causes me to twitch. Wish I could upvote you more than once.
As for the actual content of your post… I can’t really agree there. So the upvote is just for your grammar prowess.
Correct. But this doesn’t mean there isn’t some room here for creative design. For alternate methods of completing a M+. Having JUST a timer is… Needlessly limiting and close minded. If you don’t like the idea of having SIGNIFICANTLY stronger mobs, then propose something else. I’d be interested to see what you could think up.
M+ mobs scale up to the point it becomes mathematically impossible though. It already does what you want.
Yes, I agree with everything here. But I still think there is room for innovation in M+ design.
You could ignore the timer a d go your own pace. When we do guild runs and we realize we won’t make timer we just kinda take our time and have fun.
That being said I shouldn’t drink heavily before a guild run ![:blush:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/blush.png?v=6" ":blush:")
This is very true. But I think the point of the discussion is progressing. Just giving up on a key would be counter to that idea.
Just a idea, I personally hate the rush of a mythic key. Some of my most fond memories are from legion when the key was long gone and our group was way over it’s head. We we’re doing tons of cc, weird tactics, mind controls. Wipes slot, left instance to repair. It’s reminded me of old vanilla blackrock depths runs
I would rather have harder content than being timed. That’s why I loved the new Kara before it became a keystone. It was a long hard dungeon, I loved it. No timer, just 5 players trying everything they had to get through it.
Oh, I agree, having that old feeling would be amazing. But probably not possible. The gear LEAP is real. The only reason you were allowed to feel that was because there wasn’t really any end game at the time other than those dungeons for a vast majority of the player base. You were going in with greens and blues and MAYBE a purple. And you were being appropriately punished for it. It was awesome. But no longer applicable to today’s gear bloat environment.