hopefully we’ll have that when the next season of mythic starts
right now i have my fingers crossed that no more ghuun spawns means the meta of snap aoe stuns and hard CC is over
when we no longer need to worry about a ghuun add, we won’t see DH required for their hard CC AND aoe stun that trivializes the affix. I hope.
lol you are serious
I have mixed feelings about this, see in FF14, I kind of like the fact that there is a timer for every dungeon…
I mean, consider what happened to a lot of Hordies in the Darkshore Warfront, because there were was no timer on it, people kept zoning back into a bugged instances, a timer is a good way to solve that problem.
Yeah, feel free to post why you think I’m wrong. 1 pack of enemies in a BFA dungeon has more abilities than all of the trash combined in a BC Heroic.
It’s honestly probably another bit of ‘the community ruined it for me,’ but reading most of the responses by people who aren’t really sure why people would want to spend longer in a dungeon without the timer makes me wonder why they’re doing something that sounds more like a chore than anything else. If you just want to get through it and get it done, why do it?
I spent 11 hours in BRD once. One run. It was insane, and it took that long because we didn’t have the LFD/LFG systems. So if you lost someone, you had to go all the way back to town and pick someone up, then hope they had the flight path, then hope they actually had a mount. I loved it. It’s still one of my fondest memories.
If a piece of content is considered tedious or a necessary evil, then maybe that should be fixed instead of trying to convince people that you need a timer to make something fun. For a lot of people, timers aren’t fun - nor do they denote difficulty. No one’s asking for M+ to be removed, they just want their reasonably difficult dungeons with different incentive than maybe a piece of gear.
How would you propose they make these reasonably difficult dungeons? Because when you first hit 120 at 285-290 item level, Mythic 0’s are reasonably difficult. If you say just take the timer off M+, the go to group comp would be 3 Blood DK’s and 2 Disc Priests. Is that more or less fun than a timer?
I think this problem is rooted in heroics (and dungeons in general) being turned into something you run hundreds of times across difficulties. Originally, dungeon runs were a lot less frequent – even if you were farming a particular piece of gear, the run count didn’t get anywhere as close to as high as it does now.
Oh man, I led so many BRD, Mara, and ST groups across my alts during the span between vanilla and the end of WotLK and they were almost all awesome, even if it took effort to keep them glued together. It took forever and was tedious at times, but it was great and satisfying in a way that M+ can never be.
What about making the dungeon scale according to how geared your group is so no matter how hard you try to outgear it, it’s always N steps harder. It’s effectively a fixed high difficulty regardless of the group. It would preserve the beginning-of-expansion feeling through the whole xpac and never get easier, acting a tradeoff for not having a timer and static difficulty levels.
Mm, nope. Did mythics on launch, still easier than BC dungeons. Zero CC required. Basically never wiped. This was 100% with pugs.
Oh man, never spent that long in BRD but I do remember spending many hours there on different runs. I also remember PVP matches that lasted hours as well. M+ honestly is a chore and boring to me. I tried them, decided it was boring and pointless, and won’t go for another one. But actual hard, and maybe even long and maze like, dungeons would ROCK to have back.
Yes please! Less esports and leaderboards, more Dungeons and Dragons.
Right, can we bring back the RPG to this MMORPG? I, and many I know, really miss that part of it.
I disagree with you. Technically you may be right. But back in BC, players didn’t race past the intended level of the dungeon like they do now. And while BFA mobs may have more abilities, the players don’t fear them cause they all run into the mob with the tank, like mindless zombies, making it easy to tank, cause CC isn’t needed anymore. It’s not worked into the mechanics much.
IF, like you say, BFA trash has more abilities, then Vanilla and BC at least more intelligent enemies.
Spell casters that run into melee cause one of their spells got interrupted. This is seriously, the single best example of how ridiculous the mechanics are. I think I’ll propose a post on that and see what people have to say about it. I’m interested.
How can you be doing mythics at 285-290 when characters aren’t even allowed into heroics until 306?
I like Mythic dungeons better when they were known as challenge mode dungeons and only offered transmog gear.
Damn I’m still salty I never got that polearm.
I agree with OP 100% and I’m about to pitch it in my own thread. I hope someone likes it.
They didn’t race past because you couldn’t. There was actual gear progression in BC and you couldn’t just afk in a warfront for sunwell gear or get lucky and get a raid piece from a dungeon.
Also people were much much worse in BC. Most people didn’t know how to play their class, didn’t hit/expertise cap, etc. Most were also on DSL internet and on rigs running dungeons at 10 or less fps. You’ll see it in Classic that nobody will need to cc anything and it will be just like dungeons are today if not easier.
I say this as a person who loved BC Heroics, but if you were half way decent at the game they were a pushover.
By going into the dungeon and doing them. What does the requirement to queue for heroic dungeons have to do with anything?
The thing is, Blizzard are still making pretty good dungeons. It’s just the timer and random affixes that are ruining them.
Shrine isn’t a bad dungeon, but add in some of the random affixes and it becomes cancaidserous. Same with Temple.
Waycrest is awesome with great ambiance and music, but add in certain affixes and you want to forget it ever existed.
Truthfully, I’m not in a position to propose anything. I have no love for the end-game at current, I find my fun elsewhere. If you’re entering Mythics at such a drastically low item level as 285-290, then you’re doing yourself and your group a disservice. That isn’t difficulty, that’s foolishness.
There will always be an ideal group comp. I’m looking at the lauded IO rankings right now and you know what I see? I see just over a hundred guardian druids in 15+, but over five thousand blood DK’s. I see over three thousand restoration druids, but less than 500 restoration shaman. I see that you’re more likely to succeed with a group consisting of a DK, Druid, Rogue, DH with a floater of either a hunter or mage. I see that you’re more likely to succeed if you’re Horde than Alliance.
Your question implies that I want M+ to be changed or even removed - I don’t. I want people to be able to play what they want, to find the challenge in what they want, to succeed in what they work at. I want the people who want the timers to have their timers, I want people who just want their difficult dungeons without timers but with rewards that mark the achievement that it took to complete it to have that. I don’t need to take away from one group to give to another, nor do I want to.
I could give ideas on what I would find enjoyable knowing what I know about myself, but I’m also a particular type of player. I like the adventure, I like the immersion, I find little things to be happy about that make other people question my sanity.
A good example of a dungeon that gave rewards for an alternate path? Tribute run. You could absolutely just slam-bam the entire dungeon as you normally would, but if you kept the bosses that you could alive, you were rewarded with better gear from the final chest. No timers necessary, different experience.
Give me dungeons with alternate paths of completion. Give me choices. Drop me into a solo scenario that gives me a set of random goals to complete. Give me a group dungeon where there’s no timer but some seriously silly RPG elements. Give me time-wasters to enjoy that make me believe that there’s anyone left at Blizzard who knows how to have fun and still has a soul.
Most of all, make it completely independent from ‘the grind.’ Make it so optional that when people complain about how tedious it is, how weird it is, how pointless it is? You can legitimately say, ‘if you don’t like it, then don’t do it. It’s not required for progression.’
Would everyone like them? No. But lots of people don’t like various things in-game, and not everything in the game is made for everyone. There’s nothing wrong with wanting something else, especially when we know it’s possible.
Good post. I say I did mythic 0s at 290 ilvl because that is the ilvl I started them at the day after BFA released. And actually the dungeons did remind me of BC or Cata heroics early on.
I’m a huge fan of adding options. Too often now if we get something added, 2 things are taken away. I think challenge modes still have a place in the game. Mythic + replaced them completely but I know there is still a place and community for CMs.
I will never understand why content and systems that were successful are completely scrapped.