Brack was right. People thought they did, but didn't

Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel · December 1, 2018, 1:16am

I’m all for pre 1.11 threat, which would actively help hybrids, because the top dps had to manage there tps.
I’m also in favor of moving kings back to the ret tree which makes them more appealing to a raid group.

Studmuffyn-veknilash · December 1, 2018, 1:17am

but not forever, if they did it for a period of time sure.

Ziryus-doomhammer · December 1, 2018, 1:18am

That may have applied when classic was still in the basic stages of discussion, now that they’ve picked 1.12 as the patch they’re going for anything not 1.12 is just as much of a change whether it comes from pre 1.12 or post.

Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel · December 1, 2018, 1:19am

Shrug. Point being is that I’m not a person who wants to keep hybrids in the mud just because I’m q huge jerk.
I’m in favor of changes that happened throughout vanilla that help hybrids. Just not in favor of post vanilla changes like some around here.

Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel · December 1, 2018, 1:20am

No they said 1.12 would be the BASE of the game. They did not say it would be strictly 1.12. And the staggered content release agrees with that stance.

Again. No changers aren’t AGAINST VHANGES DESPITE WHAT YOU THINK.
We’re against changed outside of vanilla.

Pre 1.11 threat is still vanilla.
Old av is still vanilla.
8 debuffs is still vanilla.
So on and so forth.

Nelthene-icecrown · December 1, 2018, 1:21am

Wow, that’s a lot of good arguments i hadn’t heard before.

Ziryus-doomhammer · December 1, 2018, 1:23am

Creating a state of the game that never existed in vanilla is a change, and at that point it’s not a case of change vs no change it’s just a debate about what changes we want.

Studmuffyn-veknilash · December 1, 2018, 1:23am

i know, was just commenting on that is all.

Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel · December 1, 2018, 1:23am

As long as those changes occurred during vanilla, it is up for debate. Blizzard even stated that.

Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel · December 1, 2018, 1:25am

Can I go slam my head in a wall?

Ziryus-doomhammer · December 1, 2018, 1:26am

Actually any change is up for debate at this point, blizzard made it clear they’re considering anything as long as it doesn’t break whatever it is they consider core gameplay.

Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel · December 1, 2018, 1:26am

So basically any change you wanted. Got it.

Dontlosmeßro-illidan · December 1, 2018, 1:27am

Mogar:

Just look at this forum. Almost every single thread being created these days is asking for changes. Everyone has their little list of acceptable changes that won’t change gameplay. Everyone has their version that still maintains an ‘authentic experience’. Thousands of different versions, and if you disagree you’re wrong because they know what’s best for Classic. Because their personal interpretation of authentic is the only one that really matters. …It’s tiresome.

Brack was right. Actually, no he wasn’t. Because these aren’t the people who wanted Classic. These aren’t the players who fought for it for years and years. These aren’t the players who signed a petition. These aren’t the players who accept Classic for what it is. These aren’t the players who are going to stick it out for years upon years. These are Current WoW players who want that experience (to one degree or another) translated into Classic because they’re getting offered that game for free. I’m not going to go into my opinion of Blizzard’s (or more likely Acitivion’s) choice of a payment model. It is what it is, and it’s not going to change. I’m simply going to implore the devs not to succumb to this growing movement for changes.

At the Classic panel at Blizzcon Ion worried about the impact of applying modern day values to Classic in terms of game design, conveniences, balance, etc, and how that would open up Pandora’s Box and they don’t want to do that. And damn, was he right. Blizzard hasn’t cracked the lid, yet people are going at it with a crowbar. It’s going to take an immense amount of fortitude by the devs not to be influenced by the horde of players who don’t want a true, authentic Vanilla experience. And to the devs’ credit…they haven’t wavered in the slightest. It’s just that as someone who wants that authentic experience, I look at this forum and all I see are calls for change…and it terrifies me. And I think a lot of ‘purists’ probably feel the same way. You can only be bombarded with so much ridiculous suggestions before it begins to wear you down. I find myself growing more and more defensive. People are legitimately asking for dual spec, lfd, flying, etc to Classic now. I don’t even know how to respond to these posts anymore.

I’d say Blizzard needs to be adamant in their next update to really squash all these suggestions and that finally we can have constructive feedback on this forum. But…they’ve done that already and people still ignore everything the devs have said about their intentions and design philosophy for Classic. So, what else can they do? I know I’m rambling now. I don’t even know what else to say. I’m just getting a bit stressed out by what’s going on here. I guess I just need to take a break from the forum.

Just as a final request to the Blizz devs: PLEASE don’t screw this up. I want an authentic Vanilla experience. I’ve resisted private servers for years, and will continue to do so. So either I get that experience from Blizzard, or not at all. Help me, Blizzard. You’re my only hope.

How the hell do you know whos who and who wants what???

I have played wow since release. I wouldn’t mind some changes that would be simple QOL ones.

We complained back then and had ideas that would make the game 100x better for that time period just as we have ideas now.

Don’t act like you can speak for anyone here. BC was MUCH MUCH better than classic. It had everything classic had but adding a lot more. Wow was an epic journey up until the end of WOTLK where it began to slide down a hill of failure.

Ziryus-doomhammer · December 1, 2018, 1:29am

They’ve clearly identified some areas they won’t be touching initially, IE class balance. They’re also clearly not above making post 1.12 changes like loot trading.

So sure use that as a general measure for what they might be considering.

Avarond-dalaran · December 1, 2018, 1:29am

You can tell who doesn’t have any real interest when they only show up after the release date is given. If you actually cared about Classic you would have been here and talking about it well before the release date was given.

Dontlosmeßro-illidan · December 1, 2018, 1:30am

My guy, where is the release date for classic?

Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel · December 1, 2018, 1:30am

Loot trading is purely a change to help Blizzard out. it wasn’t asked for by the player-base and many people were upset when they heard about it.

but yes, i don’t care if they have updated graphics (so long as i have an option for classic graphics still).
i don’t care if they have a toggle for new models (as long as old is the standard).
neither of those changes gameplay.

Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel · December 1, 2018, 1:31am

summer 2019. that’s all we know so far.

Åpocalypse-illidan · December 1, 2018, 1:39am

I’d take issue with all 3 of those points, actually

DHK removal. I’d constitute this as a bug fix, more than anything. DHKs did absolutely nothing to discourage NPC greifing from the players who didn’t care about their pvp rank, which was basically all world pvpers. Meanwhile those that did care about their PvP rank, where often too tethered to their respective battlemaster npcs (or BG zone ins, prior to battlemasters being installed), for DHKs to make a significant difference at all.

They where completely useless for their intended goal, and exploitable by same faction griefers to punish anyone who did give a damn about their pvp rank. Furthermore, there was also never any real indication as to what NPCS where safe or not safe to attack. It was an arbitrary and nonsensical system that failed at a fundemental level.

Rolling AV back to a non failure version.

Blizzard themselves said previously that this was exactly the kind of thing that they’d listen to feedback for… As others have mentioned, pre-nerf AV was ALSO vanilla era content, and fully within a hypothetical “no change” position, and quite easily could be argued is simply the vastly more iconic, memorable, and representative form of the battleground. On a personal note, I’d also add that it furthermore gives Classic something entirely unique over the current version of the game… OG AV was the “Warfront” that BfA wished it had, and basically the only version of AV that I’d have any remote interest in playing, barring suffering through a rep grind on my alts for the rewards. Old AV would honestly be one of the things I’d most look forward to, in a potential Classic release, and something I think Blizzard would be missing out heavily on if they did not include it, because they wanted to lazily keep the 1.12 garbage version that EVERY. SINGLE. PERSON. I knew in game blacklisted for the past number of expansions.

Raid Retuning…

This is more nuanced, but there’s a fairly strong case that rebalancing raids is MORE AUTHENTIC, than just leaving them in the 1.12 balance state. The raids certainly where not designed to be speed ran by people in leveling greens, when they where current content, and every “raid rebalancing” post I’ve seen specifically references wanting raids to be tuned to their INTENDED difficulty levels. I don’t think it’s all that absurd to want the first few raid tiers to actually take some effort, particularly when a failure to do so can throw off the gear progression of an entire server, and has drastic pvp implications as well (Ragnaros weapons, are essentially HWL weapon ilvl… You really don’t want to see every single warrior and rogue capable of hitting 60 and mouth breathing their way through an unrealistically easy version of MC, then running around with HWL tier weapons globaling people in BGs. Proper and intended difficulty tuning is both authentic and arguably needed.

Avarond-dalaran · December 1, 2018, 1:46am

1 hour 47 minutes 4 seconds in.