I dunno, man. Maybe I’m just not hep with the new trends but it seems like these folks actually want their changes.
Humans are pathetic creatures (in general not due solely to this obv).
Now this is a Changer ill happily game beside. I’ll even help you lobby for yours one day, although I’m curious why retail isn’t sufficient.
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Your stance is excellent Mogar. The largest argument and leverage players had for both making vanilla private servers and pushing blizzard to create WoW classic is the fact that despite Paying for the original game we are unable to play the content in the version we purchased it in by legal means.
I admit some changes to classic could benefit the game, but if we are not reconstructing the game as closely as we can to the original first what was the point of this movement for classic in the first place? To receive a modified version of the game we purchased?
Arguments such as:
Starcraft: Remastered, Warcraft III: Reforged; Classic WoW should follow this model as well.
Are pointless because BOTH SC:R and WC3:R still have their original version available for purchase/play.
There ARE ways to go about changes for those pro-changers, but they can only be established after the original is actually available to play. Look at Path of Exile as an example. They use a league system where new seasons may have modified rules/balancing/features/zones released to keep the experience fresh, BUT THE ORIGINAL GAME IS ALWAYS AVAILABLE TO PLAY. Changes that players enjoyed/preferred are often worked into the next iteration of the league along with whatever new features they wish to add, whilst features that were deemed poor are left out. If blizzard are planning on maintaining classic servers for 10+ years, I would be shocked if servers are not recycled to some extent with fresh servers being released at some intervals (6 months, a year? who knows?). When blizzard releases a new set of servers perhaps it is possible to have a few with modified content to make the experience interesting for those who have played the previous seasons while not alienating the people who enjoyed it how it was.
The real question however that bothers me is why so many are trying to change Vanilla and not BFA? If you like your LFG, Dual spec, M+ e.t.c. why are you not pushing for classic changes in BFA? I can understand that vanilla represents a clean canvas for the current community to carry in a new direction but if you are going to just keep asking for features that retail already provides then why not try changes the version of the game that already has those features implemented?
Anyway, happy to discuss, keep it up Mogar you champ, your the hero this forum NEEDS, but not the one it deserves I’m afraid.
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Hi Pwnbot-
Nice post. I just want to address one thing you ask re: why pro-changers are trying to change vanilla and not BfA?
I don’t speak for everyone who asks for change but I can tell you why I ask for changes.
1- I don’t care about BfA. It isn’t a very good iteration of WoW imo. I didn’t play it very long.
2- I, like so many on both sides of this argument, am nostalgic and really loved parts of classic. I love the skill tree and what it represents- a fun time to play a toon before Blizz pruned so many abilities. For a PvP’er/Arena’er like me, that really is the crux of what makes this so fun. To be able to use downranked spells, to have a full skill bar and lots of choices is great. Most of the other stuff that no-changers like about vanilla are honestly just “meh” for me.
3- I have no idea if this new server will last half a year or for years. I don’t want to take a chance and miss an opportunity to ask for additions that will make for the most fun version that I can imagine.
I made a very long post in this thread explaining lots of other things (from my perspective) but i didn’t address your interesting question.
Thanks
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First, don’t discount the silent majority. The fact that I am not on here daily whining about all the people asking for changes does not mean that I don’t want a 1:1 vanilla experience. Rather than get on here and be vocal about things I simply chose to vote with my wallet and quit buying expansions and quite paying for a sub.
Second, while it is true that since vanilla people have been asking for changes, since vanilla Blizzard has been granting those changes and it has taken us from vanilla to BfA. The request is to go back to vanilla and not implement BfA. That’s the point of Classic WoW.
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Classic won’t change anything to that aspect. Private servers are being hosted outside of Blizzard’s jurisdiction: either in Russia or in France. The attempts at pservers in NA have been shut down with Cease&Desists the second they came in Blizzard’s sights.
There’s private servers of every expansion around, each with varying levels of mediocrity in terms of scripting. None of them are being shut down by Blizzard because they’re too small or out of Blizz’s jurisdiction.
Blizzard isn’t doing Classic in order to have a “valid reason” to shut down pservers. There’s a valid reason already, which is infringing on Blizzard’s IP. Blizzard saw there was a demand for vanilla/legacy servers, which was an opportunity to make more $$ and bring back lost subscribers.
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Some players do seem to keep calling for changes, like removing DHK’s or rolling AV back to non 1.12 or retuning raids…
But even though I won’t stick with vanilla year after year I am the same player who signed the petition. I see vanilla as a stepping stone to a Burning Crusade rerelease. So I signed the petition to further that goal (you’re welcome by the way) and will only use classic to bide some time until then.
However your entire premise has one glaring, fundamental flaw. The devs said they want to recreate an “authentic classic experience”. In fact, I think they’ve repeated themselves on that point. Nothing is more authentic to the classic experience than devs caving in and making changes based on forum QQ. Anyone remember patch 1.6? Blizz announced they were revamping hunter and druid talent trees. After hunters got their talent revamp preview they QQ’d on the forums until Blizz revamped hunter talents a second time and bumped druid changes out of the patch entirely.
So yeah, while QQing about forum QQ is authentic to the vanilla experience, so is Blizz making changes based on nothing more than forum QQ. You warriors QQing to be the ONLY viable raid tank have no idea how much we learned from you.
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And after ornyx posted that they literally said that if you want what they would do now to go play BFA.
I love you. You get 1 like and a quote cuz I can only like once
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Here’s the thing. No changers aren’t strictly no changes. We are against changing the game post vanilla.
So stuff like old av or new av is perfectly up for debate because that happened during vanilla
Pre 1.11 threat or post happened during vanilla.
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Pre-1.12 AV isn’t a change, because surprise surprise, AV launched during Vanilla!
That’s your opinion.
You either want the game to exist in a state it existed in during vanilla or you don’t. If you don’t it doesn’t matter whether you’re trying to mix up vanilla changes or things post vanilla, you want change and you’re just arguing about what changes.
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Oh, look! Another ‘Wall of No’ proponent giving us instruction on false dichotomy.
Don’t you ever tire of being wrong?
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he posted it once in response to someone asking for Blizzards current position.
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You don’t have to post the wall of no to support the wall of no.
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lol ok, pretty weak reasoning, but ok
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If you say so.
Seal of the Crusader and Hurricane also existed in unnerfed states during Vanilla’s timeline. Undoing both nerfs would go a long way to making ret and balance more raid viable. But since we both know the vanilla timeline’s “untouchableness” is not the true reason you want hybrids to only be able to heal, let’s go ahead and hear your excuse for why that’s some sort of exception…
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Its mostly retail players asking for the changes, as soon as the Demo came out and peeked some people’s interest, or maybe BFA just sucks that bad…The Classic forums has been swarmed with folks wanting changes. There were change threads before but not like this, its not a reflection of what the vast majority of Classic players want though, the devs seem to know that and are not taking the WoW forums to heart.
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No, the point is to go back to vanilla. Even blizzard encouraged discussing which elements of vanilla should be included by pointing various changes that happened during vanilla.
By their own words I do not have to choose one point in time.
I could choose 1.12 talents with pre 1.11 threat with 8 debuffs in pre naxx content and old av and that is still vanilla.
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