Can we please have something done to fix this? It’s been like this for a long time now. Is it not considered a big design flaw for 1/3 specs to have a capstone that just doesn’t work with the way their spec functions? And not just that but the few talents leading to it (spiritwalkers and the choice node below it) are useless for enh too.
Natures swiftness does nothing for enhance since our casts are instant already from maelstrom weapon, spiritwalkers grace has the same issue, it does nothing as we do not cast often if at all.
Maybe Spiritwalkers can get a big move speed increase added to it and the choice node below it can make you immune to slows while Spiritwalkers is active (this can be added to one of the choice node talents). This would at least give it some niche uses for pve enh and would make it decent for PvP enh. Wouldn’t be game breaking for ele or resto either. Unsure what can be done with Natures swiftness to make it useable for enh but it should at least be a worthwhile choice to make.
This is a super fried take. You’re upset that you don’t have to sink valuable/limited talent points into the tee and therefore have more points to use on talents you want rather than only getting those you need. This is the equivalent of “i have soo much money and so few expenses that i now have surplus cash. Please, someone give me more expenses or take my money away because i can’t spend it all.”
But I’ll entertain your opinion. Let’s say they change up that section of the tree and make it something relevant to enhance too. You know what will be there? Something we already have baseline or something from our spec tree, or some stats that will just get transferred from our base template to our tree and now mandate that you spend points on them. Blizzard isn’t going to magically decide you get even more utility. We already have a ton of buttons and they aren’t adding to that.
So, as i said, that leaves them with the option of taking something baseline away from us to give it back in the class tree and force us into taking those points to return to baseline.
Resto and ele need to hardcast. You don’t. Be thankful you don’t need to spend those talent points to help you do damage or healing and instead get to put those points into things that are fun but not necessary.
He is upset that Enhancement has talents that are useless for them and thus less options in the already dumpster fire class tree. Heaven forbid every talent at least be usable and helpful to every spec that has access to them, that isn’t too much to ask. Having talents that aren’t usable or helpful is the epitome of horribly designed/balanced.
I can understand why your cynical when it comes to Blizzards ability to make good changes, after all look what they did to primordial wave for ele. That said they did implement Stone Bulwark, which wasn’t ripped from base kit and offered more survivability. As for more buttons, AG was just ripped away so even if it’s a new button we aren’t gaining more buttons than we already had.
As for being thankful, lmao have you never looked at the tree from Enhancements perspective? There is no real “fun” to be had. Look at all these totem talents for all the totems I don’t have or use regularly! Gotta amp up that healing spring, wind rush, or occasional poison cleansing! It’s an exercise in trying to not waste points on things that are barely useful or super niche so you can get things that are slightly more useful and niche. Picking up totemic recall so you can use it mainly for windrush is not fun, it’s sad and infuriating that a capstone talent is so bad. I’ll go through every talent if you want, but to save time most of the bottom half of the tree, usually where the best more impactful talents reside, is classified as “Better than nothing”.
Yep, be thankful enhancement. You get to put your points into “not necessary” talents and have 3 talents that are completely useless so you don’t even have to register those as an option! Rejoice at your lack of good meaningful choices!
Your spells aren’t instant cast 100% of the time, and nature’s swiftness can come in clutch for a quick instant healing surge when you don’t have a proc up.
Spiritwalker’s grace has plenty of utility for enhance as well, especially when you have to move out of melee range and can’t hit a target to proc instant healing surges, but you’re still taking damage… you can spam healing surge while moving, as well as damage spells for filler.
Something tells me you’re playing the game poorly, given the fact that you’re not considering either of these things to be viable options.
Look, the point I’m making is that blizzard is not adding in more utility or more defensives. There’s just no way. We had to fight tooth and nail to get bulwark. They’re not going to give us more utility either, we already have, arguably, more than pretty much everyone. Asking for more is asinine. That leaves us with options that increase our dps. And dps is budgeted. If they give us more damage in the tree it’s coming out of our budget somewhere else.
I also play multiple other specs. For example, DK has a lot of great capstone effects. That doesn’t make it more fun, or cooler. It adds friction because you’re always leaving something on the table. Those forced choices feel bad. Once i finish getting the mandatory talents, i have one point left over for improved amz, 5% leech, ams being applied to 2 nearby friendlies, shorter kick, and increased healing received with ams up. That choice feels awful. On the flip side, when i play my shaman, i have the freedom to have a couple wiggle points for niche benefits. I can give the group speed, i can reset a totem, i can reduce spell damage taken if i kick that school. These things are nice, but not necessary and i rarely enter a dungeon where i feel like i have to make sacrifices. That is a luxury. When i play enhance, that luxury is amplified. Adding additional things to the tree that enhance would feel obligated to take is a curse, not a blessing.
Lmao thats hilarious, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You have 0 cutting edges, nothing done in pvp, and nothing above me in m+ either man like what are you even saying. I dont think you know anything about playing well. You have no experience anywhere in the game.
Secondly, if you want to talk about that, we can look at high level players doing m+, pvp and raid. Looking at top enhancement players, not a single one of them plays spiritwalkers grace in any m+ dungeon (0% of logged shamans play it in any of the m+ dungeons), nobody plays it in raid, and nobody plays it in pvp. No reason to comment if you have no idea what you are talking about.
It takes 2 seconds to see that no high level enhance players take any of the talents I listed, you couldn’t even check before spouting nonsense.
Wanting to have talents as important as capstone talents being worthwhile for all 3 specs is a fried take? Are you actually saying that having 3 talents in the tree that are all towards the bottom being completely terrible or downright unusable is better because we get to take those 3 points elsewhere? That is insanely stupid. I’d rather have those 3 be good choices for all 3 specs, as it should be its a CLASS tree, than have limited options because those 3 talents are only built for 2/3 of the specs.
You are telling me to celebrate having limited options and to be happy over talents being terrible lol. I assume this is because you are an Ele shaman that can use those 3 talents so you dont have this issue, but ideally they don’t ‘rework’ this side of the tree, they add to it. They can add choice nodes to Spiritwalkers grace, Mana spring and Natures Swiftness with things that work for all 3 specs. They really do not have to touch or remove what we currently have and I wouldnt want them to either. I also gave examples of how they could add to Spiritwalkers to make that useable for enhance without nerfing it or removing it, give it movement speed+snare break or movement speed+snare immunity and now pvp enhance shams will grab it and pve shamans might potentially take it.
Not sure what you’re talking about here lol… I have multiple “cutting edge” achievements, I haven’t done PVP since legion, have 4/8 mythic in raid on my main, this warlock has at least AOTC and 8/8 clears, and my M+ is all 10s for this warlock as well, considering there’s no real benefit to doing anything higher than a 10 M+ this season.
As for you though, (according to raider io) I’m showing 1/8 heroic, literally JUST queen for AOTC (lol), and nothing for M+?
Your ilvl is 603 as well (according to wow armory) - so I very highly doubt you’re doing higher M+ than me and actually contributing valuable dps.
So yea, I’m not sure where you’re getting the entitled “you have no experience anywhere in the game” - but its hilarious to me that you think you’re insanely good at shaman, so much so, that you’re going to try to compare achievements, raid clears, and M+'s.
Brother, you literally ONLY play enhancement too… talk about being a pain for everyone you group with and not having the ability or cognitive acuity to play resto a handful of times for the good of the group…
So maybe pipe-down with the arrogance a bit before you burst a blood vessel?
Spiritwalker’s grace isn’t a staple ability, its utility that gets less use the better you are at the game. The fact that you’re saying “look at high level players” proves to me that you have no clue how the ability works or what kind of emergency scenarios it could be used in.
But, something I can not stress enough… NOT EVERY TALENT IS GOING TO BE AMAZING FOR YOUR BUILD AND IT NEVER WILL BE. Literally NOTHING is forcing you to take spiritwalker’s grace or nature’s swiftness as enhancement. There is no capstone talent on that path that makes/breaks your spec as enhancement. People like you are the reason we ended up with that trash talent system in legion where you got 3 choices every 15 levels or w/e it was… You’re never satisfied with the choices you have, so you continue to gripe about nothing.
So you’re essentially screaming into the void about a non-issue that literally nobody has because you want your character to have MORE utility, as one of the classes with the most utility in the game.
If they’re not taking it? Then its a non-issue. Period.
But feel free to add me on b-tag and I’ll still out-dps you in every single M+ as ele in its currently broken state, both single target and AOE.
I’ve been maining shaman since before you even started playing WoW my guy. Welcome to ignore though.
LMAO I’m 603 because I pvp, are you blind? I don’t pve much anymore, but when I did my logs are 100x better than anything you’ve even come close to, though it was on my hpal since thats what I pve’d on in the past. I also have PVPed as ele, i play both. You have 0 cutting edge achievements, not a single one, stop lying lmao its easy to check, you have 0 pvp achievements, and the 1 thing you actually do you barely get anywhere. You have no ground to be lecturing anyone on how to play.
You have no idea what you are talking about, objectively. Not a single player is taking spiritwalkers or natures swiftness as enhance, there is no situation where any good player takes it. You said I’m playing poorly because I dont consider them to be viable options, which is basically saying every single high level shaman in the game is playing poorly because they do not consider them to be viable options either. You are completely delusional.
No, that is exactly the issue. Welcome to missing the entire point, not even sure why you are here responding you have no idea whats going on.
Little dude, you’re literally comparing holy pally to elemental shaman. You’ve lost the plot. You have nothing to show for your claims. I do.
You’ve quite literally haven’t played shaman at end-game content since Siege of Ogrimmar, over 12 years ago. and even then, I doubt you played elemental. Since then, you have NEVER played end-game content on your shaman in PVE. The last time you played shaman at end game content? Shamans still dropped all 4 totems at once.
If ANYONE here, has “no idea what you are talking about, objectively.” - it’s you. I could take you into heroic Nerub-ar Palace right now, or a 10 M+, and you’d OBJECTIVELY be a hard carry. Please sit ALL THE WAY DOWN with your superiority complex.
You’re literally trying to compare my achievements to NOTHING you’ve done, outside of pvp, lmao… nothing you’re saying here matters. You have literally 0 proof of anything you’ve done. Your Raider io isn’t linked to this character, so I have no clue who your main is, and if you tried to say it was “xyz character” - there’d be no way of proving that outside of taking your word for it, unless you linked it on raider io or posted from it here.
Coming from the guy who literally doesn’t PVE at all? k.
I never said they did bud, please do try to keep up. I said they can be used situationally. Sorry you’re mad about being able to critically think about skills in the game?
You are playing poorly. They’re not viable options for enhancement because there are better places to spend your talent points that benefit you better as enhancement, genius.
You’re not one of those “high level shamans” - so why are you comparing yourself to them? LMAO… talk about delusional…
You’re sitting here bragging about some kind of PVP achievements or something, as if PVP is a massive part of the game. It’s not. It’s like 10% of the game, the rest is PVE. Get mad about it, I truly do not care.
It seems as if you used to be decent at PVE, then went to PVP because you fell off. You want recognition for things you did a DECADE ago. Living in the past. Nobody cares dude. Grow up, get a grip on reality, and move along from the past.
People aren’t taking it because it doesn’t make sense to take it for enhancement. It’s a non-issue. There are other talent points to put talent points into. You’re literally crying about not using an ability that you don’t use anyway. You want something to make it appealing to you as enhancement. You want more utility than you already have as a shaman. Thus, it’s a non-issue. You’re making a problem where there isn’t a problem. That’s what a “non-issue” is. I’m not really sure how to break it down any farther for you, because this is basically in crayon… but NOT EVERY TALENT POINT IS GOING TO SUIT EVERY SPEC EQUALLY. That is true for LITERALLY EVERY CLASS IN THE GAME.
That’d be like me crying that I don’t take healing stream totem as elemental, and crying about not taking it and that it should be replaced by something else because my build, specifically, doesn’t take it.
But now, I’m done responding.
Edit: I see you’re already responding to my response I posted less than 1 minute ago. Further proving you don’t actually want a conversation, you just want to be right - you never will be. You’re an entitled brat. Have a good one bud. - maybe this season? You can actually participate in the other 90% of the game and prove me wrong?
No responses will follow this one. So get whatever you want off your chest and keep screaming into the void.
Yes because Spiritwalkers and Natures swiftness is unusable for enhancement, does absolutely nothing for the spec, and that should not be the case in a class tree. All 3 capstones should be beneficial for all 3 specs, and that is not currently the case.
You have no idea what you are talking about, again. They aren’t viable options for enhancement because enhancements design does not work with these talents, it has nothing to do with “better places to spend your points” lmao. So stupid.
Even though its obvious you have no idea what you are talking about, this right here makes it very obvious. You are drooling at this point. It doesn’t make sense to take them for enhancement because they are awful for enhancement to take and do not work with the way the spec is designed Ie having instant casts. You said I play poorly because there are “scenarios” where you can take them, which is objectively false, nobody is taking them in any scenario at any high level of play. The problem is these talents are unviable for 1 out of 3 specs, and it is not just a random talent in the tree it is a capstone talent+2 talents leading to it (aka important talents).
This comparison is complete garbage, it is not a complaint about the power level of a talent, it is a complaint about the fact the -design- of these talents don’t work with enhance because of the way enhance is designed. You still don’t get that lmao. All capstones at the very least should be good, viable options for all 3 specs, the devs themselves have said this is their goal.
I dont care if you respond or not man you’ve said that like 3 times now, your responses add nothing to this discussion because you have no idea whats going on.
For someone who claims to pvp and be good at it, this statement alone shows a level of terrible that is rarely seen on these forums, and that’s saying a lot.
Explain when spiritwalkers is used in PvP for enhance, and also explain why not a single enhancement shaman on ladder ever takes it. I also do not claim to be good at pvp to be fair, just that I have more experience than you on your main. Not surprised you are immediately back on the lock typing again right after replying on an alt. This is actually so cringe lmao
He can’t grasp the concept of “hey my spells aren’t ALWAYS instant cast, but that’s not the case so often that I NEED to take spiritwalker’s grace”
There’s literally no point in arguing with him, his narcissism is too strong… he quite literally thinks EVERYTHING in the class tree should be good for EVERY spec. Completely ignoring the fact that it’s a “general skill tree” - and not ALL of the options are going to be good for his specific spec - and the “spec tree” exists for things that are specific to his spec, because that’s what its for.
It’s like druids, all of the specs have access to some of the cat, resto, bear, boomkin talents in the class tree… but you don’t take those talents unless there’s something specifically niché, or you’re playing that spec.
Same thing for nearly every other class in the game… You’ll notice he’s not complaining about the healing stream totem talent being nearly useless for enhancement, because it doesn’t really do much for any spec outside of resto.
He’s throwing a tantrum over a non-issue because he wants attention and something to complain about. You could literally make the argument he’s making for every class in the game, and the talent you complain about, depending on spec.
I gave up on the dude, he’s not the brightest bulb in the box.
LMAO replying to yourself on an alt is the cringiest thing I’ve ever seen. You are so desperate its unbelievable. Liking your own posts too man, unreal. It is not the same as every other class in the game, thats why class trees have gotten reworked so often, druids literally just did.
You cant explain why not a single enhance shaman ever takes spiritwalkers or NS, you think its because its ‘not viable’, but its because it does not work with enhancements design, which is a design flaw of the spec tree. You cannot make this case for every class in the game, your brain is just not working so you do not understand what the issue is here, you think its related to tuning or viability lol.
But the fact you have to reply to yourself like this says it all. Bad players are so delusional, you also lied about ‘having cutting edges’, makes sense you’d do this too.
“im gonna stop responding now have fun talking to the void!!!” for the 15th time as he hops on an alt to respond to himself. Oh this is just too good.
Last response… as you’re clearly mentally unhinged.
I have no clue who this person is, nor do I care.
You checked my achievements, check theirs, we don’t have the same amount of account-wide achievement points, nor the same achievements completed.
Every other class in the game has talents on their class tree that benefit certain specs more than others. Denying this is pure insanity.
I explained that to you 2 times now, if you actually read my responses instead of knee-jerk reacting to them with insanity, but I’ll go for a 3rd… They don’t take spiritwalker’s grace or nature’s swiftness because there are better choices to pick for enhancement than those 2 talents and the use they WOULD get is OUTWEIGHED by the selection of the other talents. This isn’t a difficult concept to comprehend. It’s literally the same concept as picking talents in your spec tree by which one gives you the MOST benefit.
I very easily could lol… talent choices are generally explained when people make the guides you follow.
It’s 100% related to viability lol, picking a different talent point that benefits you more, IS the more viable option, genius.
What you’re doing here is called psychosis and paranoid delusions my guy. I strongly recommend seeing a psychologist. This isn’t healthy, LIKE AT ALL.
Anywho, just thought I’d address those things for you, since drawing it out in crayon the first 2 times seems to have failed. Maybe you’ll read this one this time.
You are cringe stop replying to me, you’ve lost all credibility after replying to yourself on an alt its the most cringe behavior ive ever seen. Do not care about your opinion, not reading any of this. You have no exp in the game, you have no idea what the point of this topic even is, and you are upset that you tried to say good players use it when not a single high level player uses it in m+ pvp or raid, you are objectively wrong, nothing else to say. No idea why you are still talking, maybe post on another alt lmao.
grace is pretty niche for enh and the only time I would think it could come up where you wish you spec it, is in rbgs for the silence protection. Enh is pretty strong 1v1 against classes who silence so the idea of using it really only comes out in large fights and then you’re just rolling the dice if it’ll actually be useful enough and give you a clutch surge or hex.
I think it would make more sense just swapping grace with swiftness and allowing grace to be cast on allies. 5s silence protection for an ally would be huge in pvp and cast while moving would be nice for multiple classes in pve, while NS is dead for enh it would instead turn grace into a 3 point commitment which justifies increasing the power of grace imo.
The alternative I could think of (to replace NS and just add it baseline for ele/resto)is just creating a hybrid of beacon of light and ancestral guidance. You cast it on an ally and X% of healing they receive(from anyone) is also received by you, limited duration or infinite duration options would be a choice, so it could be something like 15% of all healing passively, or 50-60% as a cooldown.
There are very simple ways to tell if someone is on an alt. You fail at the forums much like you fail at understanding simple concepts in this game. Such is life…
Not even close to the same thing bud, I had a feeling you’d try to throw that out there but one is pretending not to be on an alt, one is not. And I am not using any alt to back myself up in an argument lmao.