No.
Having 10,000,000,000 gold doesn’t give you any advantage over someone with zero gold.
The main difference is 1. You still have to be present for the accomplishment of the reward. There is a money and time investment. 2. Because there is still time investment, they are not getting an advantage over me, who plays with friends and can get it done just as quickly.
If they pay for KSM, that’s still every dungeon x 30 minutes at least per dungeon.
And KSM doesn’t win you much. You’re still at the mercy of RNG from the drops and vault. So you’re not winning much of any value.
P2w means you get it right now when others had to work for it. OR you get a powerful thing with money that is not present in the game content.
An example of P2W would be if they put an item on the shop where you could pay 20 bucks each week to pick your piece from the great vault. Like any piece. I’d quit that second if something like that entered the game, because honestly that’s how it should be FOR FREE
OR they put a higher item level legendary in the shop. Like how my favorite mounts were ones I bought. But for gear. Which would be pay to win.
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Yes, yes it does.
false, any advantage that you get through real money in the game, and that you can continue to get constantly by investing more and more money is P2W.
Alright well I’ll make a few toons on your servers to pick your gold up. No reason to have it if it’s not doing you any good.
If that were the case then bank alts would be the strongest characters in the game.
You can have all 1000 gold that I have pal. Gold is honestly meaningless right now with how easy it is to make.
Unfortunately I still need it to repair my gear and get the occasional gem and enchant. As a tank, it gets broken faster. But by all means, if you think being able to repair is an advantage… well actually I dunno what to say.
Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I start to wonder if the only reason we have loot is because we have always had loot. It’s still fun to collect things and dress characters up, so I don’t think that should go away. Maybe the game should be less loot focused though. Like if someone wants to raid, just let them play some raids rather than put them through this giant ilvl gathering process.
I find myself quickly hating dungeons on alts because I know the only reason I am doing them is to raise my ilvl. I used to love dungeons, though. I still remember going to deadmine for the first time as a kid and being mystified. I used to love the adventure. Now it’s just a chore I am required to do dozens, if not hundreds, of times over.
Even the way I look at loot is different. I used to want a staff because it was a super cool staff. Now I just want the ilvl. I dont even care how it looks because I can just transmog it. It’s just a stepping stone. A chore to get to the thing I actually want to be doing.
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Not when you want to buy a legendary base item. Or a BoE off the AH. Or the 5M brutosaur mount Or…IDK…just spitballing here a carry.
You may not be all that concerned with based on your own playstyle, but having more gold is fundamentally advantageous as a concept.
Gotcha. So then, what, I can have 95% of it? Repairing is pretty cheap in Retail. Almost doesn’t need to exist as a concept. You can do one calling a week and you’ll be fine. Just mail me the rest.
It is still a debate because corrupt players who sell boosts and corrupt players who buy boosts keep arguing the matter because they don’t want to admit they are corrupting the game because then they would have to take responsibility for that and either admit ‘no, they don’t care about the game, they only care about themselves’ or change their playstyle to not include boosts/carries.
there is NOTHING WRONG with buying boosts for gold. there is everything wrong with people thinking because they have gear that they are entitled to be in high io / rating groups
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It’s a way to increase the lifetime of dungeons within an expansion. Were you doing deadmines as a level 60?
Except it is the players who allow for this type of ‘winning’. Not the game. Players also benefit from it.
I think that’s the part that lessens the harshness of P2w in this game. You’re not just paying the company and getting a thing. You’re also allowing players to benefit from your laziness.
And…those players who benefit from your laziness are also able to pay for their game with the thing you bought with real money.
I guess the main reason I don’t hate this system is it doesn’t affect me negatively. More people with good gear means more people to play with.
And the system doesn’t punish me for not using it.
There was a thing in another game I played where you could purchase the research time of powerful spells. So it was wait 2 months or get the spell right now. I quit that game as soon as they put superpowers spells into that system.
Only for fun. Sometimes its cool to go back to old content and totally destroy it with your new gear. It feels like thats also harder to do now.
Not for me. I did heroic plaguefall solo for the mount.
S. 1629, entitled “A bill to regulate certain pay-to-win microtransactions and sales of loot boxes in interactive digital entertainment products, and for other purposes.”
So, P2W is what we are all fighting about? Blizzard certainly has constructive knowledge of the WoW Tokens being abused for boosting a.k.a - gambling (boost funneling of rng gear), for valuable virtual items (gear) through bosses (lootboxes).
They deceptively subvert the bill with the WoW Token as “grey area”. As well as through player-based agencies (used to be boosting communities - now redacted to guilds [player agency]). These player agencies act as the mediator to in-game virtual bosses, whom upon defeat will have rng based rewards mimicking the loot box.
You pay to have these player agencies mediate conflict resolution on bosses whom house rewards in the same rng manner as a loot box.
It’s P2W. Paying USD (or your regions currency) through the digital store for conversion in to in-game currency, where you pay a mediator (guild) to initiate conflict resolution (kill bosses/loot boxes with instance based mechanics) for an rng chance (gambling) on valuable virtual items (gear).
It’s P2W. You guys paying these guilds to frolic you through the roses in LFR? No? Why not?.. Oh… Because it’s not seeing the raid or content inside you want…Its the rng based gear you are paying for a chance at (while 0 APM’ing the entire raid). The moment Gallywix handed over their spreadsheets to Blizzard it became undeniable constructive knowledge of the in-game P2W and they implemented the constructive knowledge to incite the P2W.
this type of ‘winning’ has existed for many years in wow, the thing is that before it was not promoted by the company, that is why it could not be called P2W and instead it was called cheating and it was banable, basically, to buy gold from sellers for real money externally.
If you think that the company cares about the scammed players and not about the $ they lost through that underground market, you are simply being naive.
They already knew what they were getting into because it was already happening clandestinely, they simply decided to give it the go-ahead and keep more $, so it’s not just a question of the players, it’s a question of the company that is supporting it.
And it’s not just a Blizzard issue, it’s something seen throughout the market that big companies in their greed have been pushing for years and that older players have been complaining about for a long time, but they ignore us because of the profits they leave over time that they accustom the younger generations to things simply being like that, to the point that there are very young players who have never known anything else and accept it as normal, because for them it has always been like that.
The token is not about benefits for the player, it is about $ above the quality of the game and its community.
According to the twisted logic people use to say WoW is P2W, then all online games are P2W since you can pay money for a carry.
WoW isn’t predatory like actual P2W games because it doesn’t put player power behind a pay wall.
Yes, any game where you can pay real world money for progress would fall under many people’s definition of pay to win. I don’t know if I would call it “twisted.”
I think, fundamentally, people like their games to be “fair.” Paying real world money for things that usually require labor doesn’t feel fair to people.
whether it is predatory or not is irrelevant, what is relevant is that you can put real money constantly to obtain benefits, therefore it is P2W, how predatory this P2W is not the point, that it is P2w is the point.
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If all games are P2W, then what is there to discuss?
Sour grapes?
The nature of online gaming means it will all be P2W according to your silly criteria. So why bring it up?