So what should the percentage be in your opinion
Iâm not gonna try and sit down and sim what % is ideal for beast cleave for bm to have decent aoe but seems like the easiest short term fix for them to then revisit once 10.0.5 drops
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Basically what Woody said.
BM doesnât need an absurd over the top buff to make it viable.
Do either you guys know off hand where BM sits comparison wise from other classes and specs AoE wise in either sims or perhaps a raid encounter with a heavy multi-target component ?
Logs wonât be locked in till 11 eastern ish I think.
Most people playing BM will be playing for boss damage.
Broodtwister Heroic 95% has BM about 27% off the median
but its a snapshot since the parse numbers are so low still. This is slightly out of line line with current sim data which has BM hunter 23% off the median (5tar cleave/5 min) and fire mage around 31% off. No big deal yhough if you havenât. I was just curious if you guys had looked at any numbers or data.
Using heroic brood is being intellectually dishonest at best.
Considering most people did normal first.
Itâs also ok for BM to have one bad fight.
More data is definitely needed because even in normal adds were dying so fast itâs not even worth going anything but ST.
This is the problem. Ideally ALL specs should be viable for ALL content. If any spec of any class âisnât getting invitedâ to content X, then it should be fixed, immediately.
What you play should be a matter of personal preference, not constantly following the meta. There just shouldnât be âsingle targetâ or âAoEâ leaning specs. Particularly when some meta specs get to do both far in excess of others.
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Actually the problem is you have a bunch of low end players taking a tier list for pushing title out of context.
BM is capable of doing 10s which is higher than the majority of those complaining.
Whatâs really said is they donât realize if they spent half the time they complain on the forums optimizing and improving their rotations they would actually perform better.
Sims yeah, havenât compared bm aoe logs to other specs cuz I assume any good hunter is gonna play mm or sv on the aoe fights. Do you not agree with my suggestion of giving beast cleave a buff? Bit of a weird line of questioning lol.
MM felt rough on normal silken court but I think itâs because adds were dying so fast it wasnât worth.
Oh true but Iâm not gonna use normal logs to compare specs xD. I also actually played st bm for normal but am defs doing mm for hc.
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Very true.
I was assigned the banner thing so was also focusing on that
What are your thoughts on the raid so far?
Bm trucks in st (shocker) think overall itâs a pretty good raid for hunter and a lot of fun
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Well I have two points here really. The first is a general one. You and Snozay have made many comments on the state of BM hunters in multiple threads acting as the de facto "forum experts. " In these comments however, you tend to diverge away from providing information or factual data and instead focus on either leveling personal attacks on a players skill level or making largely inflammatory statements in order to advance your own personal agenda. I am not criticizing this behavior mind you. In a free content apace like a forum, you are allowed to do virtually anything and its up to the reader to decide. It just seems counter productive to me if your goal is to be accepted and understood.
Second, and more importantly, when people make statements of fact they have to have some empirical support otherwise they are just opinions. When you and Snozay say things like âBM is not that bad in AoEâ or âBM just needs a small buff to beast cleaveâ my assumption is you have looked at things like sim data or the accumulated beta meta data on M+ runs and that is what is driving your assessment. To come back and say âIâm not gonna sit down and sim what % is ideal for beast cleaveâ suggests that perhaps you havenât put in the time and effort required to understand the situation to the degree you are claiming in your posts. That seems a little silly doesnât it? After all you and Snozay critique all these people as being bad players because they disagree with you, but you guys donât even understand (or put in the effort to understand) the empirical data that supports the entirety of the game.
By the way, here is the final exam question: Beast Cleave and its companion talent Kill Cleave affect only Pet melee attacks and Kill Command. When you say âsmall buff to beast cleaveâ basically you are changing the percentage of damage these attacks have on the non-primary targets. This is currently set at 80%. It has a max of 100%. Given the empirical data that has BM 5 target cleave ~23% off the median, could a simple small % buff to beast cleave bring the AoE value to the middle?
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You do realize both of us raid at a CE level right?
And most of the people we are telling bm isnt doing tank canât even get aotc.
When people play poorly itâs easier to blame the class than themselves.
Itâs why people get mad and call me a troll because instead of realizing Iâm saying the truth theyâd rather cope and blame anything else.
You mean like personal experience? I have linked dungeon screenshots showing my overall being double the tank.
Like basing the specs balance on people that canât execute a proper rotation or look up a guide?
Yeah donât lump me in here lol Iâve never said either of these things. I have only ever said that bm aoe is pretty bad currently but itâs not disc priest or tank dps bad.
I mean be my guest but Iâm not a blizzard dev itâs not my job to come up with the optimal % but I play the spec and the options are either nerf basilisk collar and aura buff bm which Iâm not keen on as itâs a larger margin for them to mess it up. Whereas beast cleave/kill cleave is purely aoe and so less likely we cop a st nerf in the process.
In fairness thatâs my fault for not communicating clearly I rope kill cleave in with beast cleave since you always take both together which a buff % definitely could fix 
Actually I never said that either. I have always said âitâs not as bad as people are saying it isâ as in saying itâs not doing tank
/healer damage.
Fix bm AOE before m+. Kthanxbye.
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So now that everyone agrees that BM AOE is not nearly good enough⊠has anyone from Blizzard even commented on it, âwe see it and are specifically evaluating a short term fixâ?
2 months for a fix would be insane.
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