Blood Elves

[Zaleos-quelthalas (Zaleos)]

I did not stay you were, I was making a metaphor. Read the entirety of my statement to get an understanding of my overall point

I’d say the exact same thing. You said my zandalar comparison didn’t work well and then explained the attacks and mop and etc, being that none of that related to said comparison or at least it was not against my previous point. Basically as if I was talking about apples and you said I was wrong because pears are not like what I said.

You are looking to argue for the sake of arguing,

That would be you. I never looked to argue. My first post was an answer exclusively to the OP. Then someone else who wasn’t even you OR the OP argued “for the sake of arguing” against what I said. So I answered that third party. Once again someone who was not involved in the argument, this time you, argued against my post. Even if, let’s say, you didn’t argue against my post for the sake of arguing, I most certainly wasn’t the one who started the argument.

You simply don’t like the way someone phrased it, even though, gramatically speaking, it takes into consideration both scenarios.
When the U.S. left Vietnam this does not necessarily mean ALL americans

…

And I do thank you for so emphatically writing ALL in CAPS further proving my point. The previous poster didn’t say “High elves left”, he said “as a whole” high elves left. Didn’t I like the phrasing? yes, that’s true. My liking or disliking over the subject is however unimportant. If what he wrote is right or wrong is the point.

so why are you arguing or complaining about an issue that was never existing

Oh I would love to know the answer to this one. There was no issue, someone decided to argue against me, I answered him, you decided to argue against my answer to someone else’s arguing…maybe you have the answer?

It is not false information to state the high elves left the alliance in WC2.

I agree, it’s not. High elves did indeed leave the alliance after the second war. From the moment he added “as a whole” , and may I add, not by chance but to actually argue against my previous post, the statement was wrong.

It does not remove, ignore, or refute that some high elves remained with the alliance in WC2 such as Alleria and Vareesa.

It does exactly that when he adds “as a whole”.

You are arguing now for the sake of arguing, not because anything is there to argue and certainly not because of mis-information.

As previously said, this would be you and the first person who argued against me to begin with.

And, hey you may argue with me on this too but personally I consider “mis-information” when you say that a group of people “as a whole” did soemthing. Were I not to know I’d believe none of said group of people was excluded of doing said something.

[Curemaster-sisters-of-elune (Curemaster)]

The problem with this is, you faction did commit mass-genocide on the Blood Elves on multiple occasions. Where a resistance of a fractured military, with no captial to hail from because it was destroy by their own Princes betrayal is seen as more of an issue then the Orcs of the 2nd war, the Troll wars (regardless if they are Amani), and the undead (regardless if they are now with their own will). So if we are going to compare this because of which faction did what… The Horde has more blood on its hands. And you can say it wasn’t the current Horde or Thralls Horde all you like, but we can say it wasn’t Varian’s Alliance either. So here we stand.

[Voxplaga-ravencrest (Voxplaga)]

unless im missing something or just misunderstanding something, the blood elves are the exact same high elves that have always existed but now have green eyes and a new name as tribute by the remaining HE’s to the fallen HE’s.

Correct. But of course it gets ignored because why use facts when it goes against what they want.

[Broflake-illidan]

I’d say the exact same thing. You said my zandalar comparison didn’t work well and then explained the attacks and mop and etc, being that none of that related to said comparison or at least it was not against my previous point. Basically as if I was talking about apples and you said I was wrong because pears are not like what I said.

Your comparison didn’t work very well because of the fact that individual tribes are not a part of the Zandalari empire nor do they claim themselves to be Zandalari. It is a very large difference from what you are attempting to convey. Your comparison simply didn’t work which was why I offered a different variant and explained it.

That would be you.

You are intentionally mis-interpreting someone, why should you not be corrected when you then claim they are spreading false information?

My first post was an answer exclusively to the OP. Then someone else who wasn’t even you OR the OP argued “for the sake of arguing” against what I said.

Snipping for space.
You post in a public forum, your post can be responded to by anyone who disagrees with you. Just because someone disagrees with you and was not your original audience does not make it arguing for the sake of arguing. Of course, you know that, you’re just being passive aggressive because you don’t like the fact I disagreed with you and not because you were slighted in anyway. So…stop it? You’re seeking to be correct on something where there was no disagreement nor statement made to suggest a disagreement. It confounds the discussion at hand because people get stuck on semantics.

And I do thank you for so emphatically writing ALL in CAPS further proving my point. The previous poster didn’t say “High elves left”, he said “as a whole” high elves left. Didn’t I like the phrasing? yes, that’s true. My liking or disliking over the subject is however unimportant. If what he wrote is right or wrong is the point.

Jesus am I arguing with Callistus or something? You are literally pulling at a phrase that literally covers such a nuance.
If I think pizza is terrible, then as a whole, the community may not agree with me but it does mean some do. It refers to the majority, and is not a statement that excludes anything.

Oh I would love to know the answer to this one. There was no issue, someone decided to argue against me, I answered him, you decided to argue against my answer to someone else’s arguing…maybe you have the answer?

I asked you. Don’t try to mirror the question back because you feel uncomfortable with what I pointed out. Again, if the statement made does not make any connotation that excludes a group, and is a reference to a majority, why are you making such an accusation or an argument? Clearly, you are of like minds, so why pick at it?

From the moment he added “as a whole” , and may I add, not by chance but to actually argue against my previous post, the statement was wrong.

Not really, it remains true dude.

It does exactly that when he adds “as a whole”.

As a whole is a general statement.

As previously said, this would be you and the first person who argued against me to begin with.

That isn’t what that phrase means, and your usage of it to be passive aggressive isn’t working to demonstrate a contradiction with your opponents.

And, hey you may argue with me on this too but personally I consider “mis-information”

What you personally consider is entirely irrelevant. There is a very clear definition to phrases and notions such as mis-information but this is not one. Focus on the actual discussion and not perceived slights of mis-information. Now I know you’re going to respond in disagreement so I’ll simply move on from it since this would be a pointless discussion with which there is no effective resolution.

[Curemaster-sisters-of-elune (Curemaster)]

Especially if facts are not fully explained when providing said facts. Such as, the fact that Quel’Thalas did indeed leave the Alliance, but not all of High Elves complied to that order to return and remained within the Alliance ranks. Thus, when Keal’thas renamed his people, he renamed the people of Quel’Thalas, not those who remained in the Alliance. Funny how the little details get ignored.

[Broflake-illidan]

The problem with this is, you faction did commit mass-genocide on the Blood Elves on multiple occasions.

What events are you referring? The only mass genocide event that hit the blood elves was that done by Arthas. I am having difficulties as well understanding what you mean by fractured military destroyed by their own prince’s betrayal.

Thus, when Keal’thas renamed his people, he renamed the people of Quel’Thalas, not those who remained in the Alliance. Funny how the little details get ignored.

This was retconned. Kael’thas didn’t do the renaming it was a decision made by the living high elves at the time.

[Arshia-alexstrasza]

Yes they did.

If you want proof, you didn’t play WC3.

And the Alliance didn’t betray them, you want proof, play WC3 and read the lore.

[Crayonn-bloodhoof]

With how the story is rn I’d be against goblins joining the alliance, but if all you hypothetical story was true and the horde tried to commit genocide on the goblins. Then I’d be fine with the goblins joining the alliance.

[Curemaster-sisters-of-elune (Curemaster)]

I’ve already stated by the Orcs in the second war, the Troll wars, as well as the Undead scourge.

Arthas destroying Lordearon.

Retconned or not, it’s still the people of Quel’Thalas, not the people whom are within the Alliance.

[Broflake-illidan]

They just refused to help when Arthas slew them, and did nothing about Garithos. I do believe it was actually Syvlanas who had the man slain afterwards.

I’ve already stated by the Orcs in the second war, the Troll wars, as well as the Undead scourge.

Arthas destroying Lordearon.

That isn’t genocide…that is a war. Let alone that in both cases, the troll wars involved a different tribe of trolls, and the blood elves did not know of any involvement of the Zandalari as their backers.
Furthermore, not all the orcs were the same after WC2, and they were reformed by thrall’s group.

So…no…the horde hasn’t really committed any atrocities against the blood elf people because they werent the same tribes, people, or directly involved.
Fair enough on the people of quel’thalas part, though it is suggested some high elves became blood elves in the warcraft encyclopedia.

Ultimately though, there isn’t a reason for playable high elves outside of personal desires.
It causes a lot more issues design wise than it would resolve.

[Zaleos-quelthalas (Zaleos)]

Your comparison didn’t work very well

Ok, let’s say the Zandalar didnt quite prove the point I was trying to achieve. The point was simply that saying “A” happened doesn’t mean “B” didn’t happen.

You are intentionally mis-interpreting someone

No.

why should you not be corrected when you then claim they are spreading false information?

I do feel something that is not true, and makes the potential reader understand things differently from how they actually are, has the potential of spreading misunderstanding and wrong knowledge. Like I said this may, hopefully, be a mistake rather than purposely trying to misinform. I don’t acuse anyone of anything on this particular occasion, I simply answer to your inquieries explaining.

You post in a public forum, your post can be responded to by anyone who disagrees with you

Why of course. Just if someone happens to do so, they shouldn’t later acuse me of “arguing for the sake of arguing”. Specially not the same person who started the argument.

Just because someone disagrees with you and was not your original audience does not make it arguing for the sake of arguing. Of course, you know that, you’re just being passive aggressive because you don’t like the fact I disagreed with you

I do know that, yes. I also know that you told me at least twice that I was the one arguing for the sake of arguing, when clearly the one who wanted to argue wasn’t me in the first place.

So…stop it?

As soon as you have no further inquieries, I’ll provide no further answers.

You’re seeking to be correct on something where there was no disagreement nor statement made to suggest a disagreement

Again. I completely agree there was no disagreement which is why I only ever answered to other posters comments on my comment. No need to argue at all if no one starts the argument.

Jesus am I arguing with Callistus or something? You are literally pulling at a phrase that literally covers such a nuance.
If I think pizza is terrible, then as a whole, the community may not agree with me but it does mean some do. It refers to the majority, and is not a statement that excludes anything.

I’ll start saying that, I admit I dont completely understand your point on this one.

As for what you quoted from me before writing this , the point , if it was not clear, was precisely pretty what you yourself said. If you said people belonging to certain group does something, it doesn’t mean ALL of them did it. That’s why I, for the…3rd? 4th? can’t remember time, I repeated myself showing how the person specifically wrote “as a whole”.

Again, if the statement made does not make any connotation that excludes a group, and is a reference to a majority

Except it does precisely that.

why are you making such an accusation or an argument?

What I just said.

Not really, it remains true dude.

Ok, then I guess we simply have different understanding of things. You may as well say that trees are black and I say trees are white. Who knows, we may both be wrong and never come to an agreement.

As a whole is a general statement.

It was used to argue against my previous post saying that some high elves staid.

That isn’t what that phrase means, and your usage of it to be passive aggressive isn’t working to demonstrate a contradiction with your opponents.

Sorry what?. Like I said, you asked me a couple times why do I argue. Even saying I argue for the sake of arguing. My answer is simple : I wasn’t arguing. Someone argued against me so I answered them, and so on.

. There is a very clear definition to phrases and notions such as mis-information but this is not one.

Ok. I may be wrong. I believed mis-information was something that informed wrongly or gave the idea of something being as it actually is not. I admit I don’t know every exact definition of every exact word out there.

Now I know you’re going to respond in disagreement so I’ll simply move on from it since this would be a pointless discussion with which there is no effective resolution.

Nice, we both agree in yet another thing.

Still makes me wonder why did you start this arguement in the first place but, have a good day.

[Arshia-alexstrasza]

They just refused to help when Arthas slew them

There was no alliance left to help.

The Alliance of Lordaeron was wiped out entirely, whatever was left heading to Kalimdor, along with the Orcs and Stormwind was still being rebuilt after being razed in the first war.

[Broflake-illidan]

Yes there was
Dalaran did not get popped until AFTER Quel’thalas fell and that was a significant period of time afterwards.
There was also stormwind and the dwarf kingdom whose name I cannot remember that were still alive. Which was where the blood elves sent their emissaries and were denied at the time.

The original alliance of Lordaeron was not there, but there were remnants left that they requested assistance from, and they received none from, hence the bitterness.

Let alone, you expect characters in game to immediately know during a desperate situation that the alliance of Lordaeron as a whole was dead?

All they knew was that Garithos, the leading alliance officer at the time tried to get Kael’thas killed, and that despite sending squads to try and assist Lordaeron they were not being met with any assistance whatsoever after.
Furthermore, Dalaran also refused to send assistance despite being in a position where they could have done so, which is also why there was bitterness towards Dalaran until MoP.

Also…don’t use clapping icons, they’re hard to copy and paste.

[Curemaster-sisters-of-elune (Curemaster)]

Once again, if you eliminate the Horde of the said atrocities because they are not of Thralls Horde, then the same thing can be said of Varian’s Alliance. You can’t do one and not the other.

And yes, the Forsaken where directly involved in the destruction of Quel’Thalas. It was only after the fact when they began to Regan their will and became Forsake. You’re own banshee queen, assisted in it’s destruction against her will.

[Arshia-alexstrasza]

Dalaran did not get popped until AFTER Quel’thalas fell and that was a significant period of time afterwards.

Dalaran is not ‘Alliance’ and was in no position to help, they were still trying to understand the plague and deal with LORDAERON. Ironforge was too far south. No one betrayed Quel’thalas. They hid behind a barrier after barely assisting Lordaeron in their own defence, and a traitor within brought it down to bring the Scourge in. They were brought down by one of their own and they committed more forces to fighting the Amani than they did to assisting Lordaeron. Their fall to the Scourge was inevitable and the idea they demanded a massive rescue force to come save them after a traitor of their own betrayed them, when they never did likewise, is Highborne arrogance and nothing more.

[Arshia-alexstrasza]

All they knew was that Garithos, the leading alliance officer at the time tried to get Kael’thas killed

Imagine Garithos, seeing a bunch of cowardly Elves that hid behind a barrier when Lordaeron fell, suddenly demanding parity when they did nothing to help? He should’ve slain them on the spot, but they had SOME use.

[Averax-staghelm (Averax)]

They have green eyes because Fel Crystals were used to power all the facilities that the sunwell no longer could. The crystals radiated the fel energy around the more metropolitan areas and made everyone’s eyes green.

The would-be high elves were migrating away from the city anyway because they didn’t want to cause unrest with their disagreements over consuming wildlife to sate their cravings.

They were not alone, some blood elves were also stationed farther away from the city and still retain their blue eyes. Mostly the Farstriders.

[Broflake-illidan]

Once again, if you eliminate the Horde of the said atrocities because they are not of Thralls Horde, then the same thing can be said of Varian’s Alliance. You can’t do one and not the other.

Not quite, because the person who got rid of Garithos was that of Sylvanas, one of their own people.
Now, mind you, I do agree it is a poor idea to hold the alliance responsible for Arthas but I believe the only way they can hold anytihng against the alliance is due to the lack of help and mind you, at one point they considered rejoining the alliance.

And yes, the Forsaken where directly involved in the destruction of Quel’Thalas. It was only after the fact when they began to regain their will and became Forsaken. You’re own banshee queen, assisted in it’s destruction against her will.

The bolded parts are extremely important which was why they held no grudge towards the forsaken or Sylvanas.

Imagine Garithos, seeing a bunch of cowardly Elves that hid behind a barrier when Lordaeron fell, suddenly demanding parity when they did nothing to help? He should’ve slain them on the spot, but they had SOME use.

That isn’t why Garithos hated them. He blamed them for the death of his family because he felt they diverted alliance forces from their proper goal, protecting humanity.
Let alone that the fact that the high elves did indeed provide assistance to humans during he fall of Lordaeron, and the fact that the high elves did help the humans create Dalaran by teaching them magic.

It was what made the issue so bitter.
“We taught you to use magic, and gave assistance in your time of need, why abandon us entirely?”. Remember, they had yet to claim silvermoon until TBC.

[Curemaster-sisters-of-elune (Curemaster)]

But they can’t hold anything against the alliance for lack of help, because Iron Forge and Stormwind were to far away to respond in time for said incoming destruction. They are basically holding a grudge for an impossible feat to achieve. It’s a really silly argument.

[Broflake-illidan]

I am very sure they had the ability to teleport at the time through their mages though I may be wrong. Not saying their grudge is reasonable, it is what it is though.