And your only counter as been an even more skewed, minuscule subset of my subset.
Again: either give me a better source, or concede that there isn’t one.
TBF, just because that’s the only source doesn’t make it a good one. The absence of other sources doesn’t automatically make it legit.
Blizzard’s data, they aren’t going to share it with you or me. Everything else is a subset, and skewed to the appeal of the community who use that paticular site (raider.io (raiders / M+), dataforazeroth (altoholics, achievement chasers, etc.), warcraftlogs (raiders), etc.)
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Hello, I see you replied to the thread. The funny part of this entire thing is that people have posted data that actually supports what Asmongold said to begin with, haha! He might be wrong on the difficulty of the raids, at least when it comes to Dragonflight raids since it does appear they might be easier than previous raids, but he was correct in the fact that there are less people raiding now than ever before, haha! This could correlate with what he said about people getting tired of having to go through all of the hoops and time wasting garbage with WoW raids!
Thanks for your post and have a great day!
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I still contend that any source on this is worth more than someone’s feelings.
I could also go off my guild, and find that 100% of people raid heroic+, and have 2600 IO or higher.
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No, there aren’t. It’s retaining players but it sold the least amount of boxes since before WoD (second fastest sales tbf).
People have been complaining about dead zones, long ques, limited arena pool, and hard time finding people for keys.
I’d rather Dragonflight a Solid B/B- expansion but none of my friends are playing still
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Exactly, and doesn’t make it accurate, neither is dataforazeroth or any other 3rd party site.
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What if that source is also someone’s feelings 
Btw, I’m not saying that website is bad, I’m just pointing out that’s a flawed argument.
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Which is why I’m going off the dataset that has a size in the 7 digits.
Again, a subset. If you take dataforazeroth’s numbers:
They claim they track data on 2,927,997 characters, of which 37.3175% are level 70, this means they have data on 1,092,655 level 70’s.
Yet if I go to RIO and look at season 2, they have data on over 2.7M characters who have completed a M+ in season 2 (2,750,435 to be exact).
So that means dataforazeroth has only about 1/3rd the data that RIO does. And yet if I was to use RIO as my source (bigger numbers right?), I would have to conclude that 100% of the player base does group content (as you don’t show up there in any rolled up counts unless you’ve done some content).
But again we know this to be false because RIO is literally a site that tracks RAID and M+ progression, thus that’s what it will skew towards. The point is the same for dataforazeroth. They do their best (read the FAQ) to obtain as much data as possible, but it will never be 100% accurate, and realistically the majority of the data there was put there by people who find that site appealing to them (alt score for example is interesting to me, I may not advertise mine because I keep my info locked down, but I know what it is, so I can look and compare).
Hence why I keep saying, the only data that would tell us the true picture (not some skewed estimation) would be Blizzard’s data, and they are never going to share that with us.
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Which (to me) says random sample.
It’s not random, it’s people who actively seeked out the site and loaded up their characters, and possibly people in their guilds. It’s biased.
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So then what’s it biased towards?
Players who specifically find an interest in that site and thus load up their characters on it. I’ve explained this before. The majority of the people I know who use dataforazeroth are altoholics and achievement chasers (people who actively care about where they rank against others in these specific categories). To the raider, what is dataforazeroth’s appeal? To the m+ runner? To the casual player who does solo content? Nothing is drawing them to that site.
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So it’s biased against raiders, yet the data it gives points out how popular raiding is?
If you mean popular in the sense that less and less people seem to be doing it every year and every expansion from whatever samples of player numbers we can see, then sure. It is very popular.
M+ is showing signs of the ladders being pretty slow and dead too. This character I’m replying with, my scrubby 2k warrior, is higher than about 70% of other warrior characters in NA that have completed at least a +2 this season.
I know that’s not accounting for a bunch of that probably being neglected alts but that’s still a lot. Less and less people are on the leaderboards and its the same people and their alts at the top every season every expansion.
I think the talk about raiding being popular is just cope. People aren’t sticking around and they’re putting the game down to play other stuff and that’s bad news. That’s how we start to get stuff like the cash shop becoming bolder and more invasive to compensate, or the game going the “freemium” route where the game is free to play but you get nickel and dimed to do everything. Imagine wow going like destiny and you gotta buy the expansion AND the pack that lets you play the dungeons and raids. I don’t think anyone wants.
The game’s gotta make some changes to pull in and retain the casual Andy’s. It has to.
What you are saying is that logs and parses don’t speak for what people want because you are essentially forced to use them.
I could see that being true, however logs and parses don’t make the overall player base do well. What I mean by that is the average player ( which falls out in blue parses ) represents the majority of the play base.
Just because they parse doesn’t mean they like the state of the game, but to actually parse and run logs you have to some degree enjoy the way the game is currently, or else you would not go through the effort.
It’s easy to argue that the facts ( be it parses etc ) don’t mean anything, but you are expecting us to believe that the way you specifically feel, represents the silent majority of wow. I think I would follow the facts not a feeling.
I don’t think that says anything about the popularity of the mode, I think it just says that a lot of payers are just bad.
Most of the playerbase is bad, that’s the point and why less people are playing. Wow is not enticing to play in the state that it is now. Nobody is going to try wow and stick with it unless they have a friend that convinces them to drop $60 plus sub and carry them to 70.
That’s not a healthy way for a game to exist long term. Its overdesigned and catered almost entirely towards people that already have played the game for years.
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I don’t think players being bad is why people are stopping. All that’s really happened on that front since wrath is the good players got better, and the bad players stayed just as bad.