Different argument. One talks about perceived fairness of people getting loot for doing less work. What Apothus was mentioning wasn’t about someone else gearing faster but rather they are now having to work harder to reach the same goals they was able to reach last expansion with less effort then they need to put forth this expansion.
Much of the gear you get from dungeons and even raids used to be obtainable via world quests, LFR, normal dungeons. Basicly any content you deemed fun to play. You got rewarded for doing what you wanted to do. Not the truth anymore, now you have to raid to get that same gear. You have less options on how to get to that end goal. You have to conform to the masses so you can get a group with hive minded people.
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I always laugh when people mention “hard work” in a game, as if I don’t have challenges in life. You know mentally adult stuff.
Yeah the mentality that a game should be hard work and give you rewards doesn’t seem like what a game should be. But it tells me that wow is an outlet for people who don’t feel like they have avenues for satisfying rewards in life and wow provides that. For me, I don’t ever want the game to feel like work. I don’t want to put in work in a video game and pat myself on the back for it. In fact, I feel kind of stupid if I put in a lot of time that isn’t fun just for for a reward in a game. It’s like having a second job that pays less than minimum wage. Why would I do that?
You have just lost it. Did 6 m+ and got no loot in any of them, that’s not okay. Chasing the cheese on a mousewheel isn’t fun, getting the cheese and feeling the upgrade and using that upgrade in the content and feeling stronger is fun. The game will lose players if they are continuing to run on a wheel all week for 1 great vault choice. The game won’t lose players as fast if people are getting an okay amount of drops and feeling the improvement. No one wants BiS the first week, but they do want something for their time.
I don’t understand why everyone wants BiS in the first 3 weeks, the other poster wanted no more time gates. The problem is that everyone hated BfA style loot where it just rains down on you so they fixed it and now people want the loot to rain on them again, I don’t understand. The system is working as intended, what’s the problem?
Except, with the new drop rates we have now–and no badges, Justice, or Valor points to compensate–we are even more slaves to the randomness than ever. You have to be lucky to get ANY kind of upgrade.
At least in BfA, you would usually get some kind of upgrade every week if you did multiple kinds of content, in addition to having two weekly chests, horrific visions, warfronts, and other chances at meaningful upgrades. I would actually rather go back to that than this severe lack of gear progression we will have in Shadowlands.
And the badge system allows you just that, because you can set a clear goal and go after it to build your badges to get to that point instead of just being lucky. And i don’t know about you, but i don’t see luck as work of any kind really.
Can we ask ourselves why were calling “RNG” work where one person can get it on their first try and the other gets it 2 years later, and others somewhere in between?
First off, let’s not use the “Participation trophy” non-agrument, because that implies you don’t have to put any work or effort in. Which i can tell you right now, even with Normal dungeons, you still have to put some work in. Or dungeons that are considered “faceroll”. Until the actual day comes where you can just sign up to a dungeon and instantly receive a reward just for teleporting in without even pulling a single mob yet, it’s never a participation trophy. You still have to work for your rewards.
Second, how are badges even a participation trophy? You do a dungeon, you get badges for a reward after, and you can save them up to buy gear. It’s pretty much akin to gold in that respect where you have to save it up to buy something. Or Wakening essences to get the legendary you want from legion. It’s just making the progress of said goal all the more clearly defined then just random drops, hoping the next one you get is that gear piece you want.
Why getting badges and saving them up to buy gear is considered participation trophies, but hoping the next piece of gear droping from RNG is considered working?
Well can you explain how it’s better then the badge’s system?
Because just saying “it’s much better” without explaining it, doesn’t really sell me on the idea of it being better.
It’s RNG protection, I was able to get a high iLevel this week just by playing and getting gear but for those who don’t get lucky they have the Vault. It’s a great system, and replaces the participation trophy badges well imo.
Yes, because i don’t know if you’ve noticed, but not everybody is lucky enough to have the RNG to roll in their favor.
And Badges are an RNG protection too. Infact, it does a better job then vaults because you get to pick which gear you like, which eliminates the RNG from the equation.
Good for you, i don’t see how that’s a good reason to keep RNG in place.
I mean anybody can say this in defense of something, “Oh i don’t know what your talking about, i mean i was just able to get this that and the other thing just by playing the game and–” But what about the times you aren’t lucky then? What about those times?
Let me put it like this. How’s being lucky hard work exactly? How’s hoping to being lucky is rewarding? What part of RNG makes it real (Relative to the game) work, the fact it makes you do the dungeon over and over again until you get lucky? What if you just have bad luck and not getting the gear your getting until 2 weeks or even months later exactly? How can you realistically work towards a gear piece you want if it’s just random?
I don’t think having bad luck makes the system bad like you claim, I’ve gone months without loot in Vanilla and it was fine because I know eventually I’d get it. I find it more rewarding to not have loot showered on me.
I’m at 185 gear in a single week of being level capped… and my luck was pretty bad. 6 raid bosses down, just 1 piece of loot. And I haven’t really done much.
Some of us enjoy working for our gear, there’s far more difficult games than WoW where gear takes much longer to come by so waiting a while before we get full BiS isn’t really that big of a deal. There’s more to a game than just loot,
I do too, and i do like seeing lots of loot. To put it simply, i love me some loot.
I can understand why you can’t have a bunch of them in a multiplayer since this isn’t single-player, and all i have to say is, fair enough.
But what makes less loot more rewarding? I mean, if it’s just one loot, one loot per week even, doesn’t matter if it’s a dungeon, or raid, would you say it’s very rewarding then?
But what about the times you aren’t lucky then? What about those times?
