Blizzard still favors Alliance in AV

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
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Fair warning to those who decide to read (especially alliance) some of the things I say are very biased because I lived through this as a horde player and practically LIVED in AV when I got the chance to play. During this time I had plenty of experiences where when changes were made I was super confused why they were done for more balance but instead for a faster experience. As alliance already clearly had the advantage these changes just made it easier for them to win faster PERIOD. I now believe 1.12 AV is possibly the easiest route to take to get Classic out to the public faster, and that Blizz has no reason to lie about not having data from 1.5AV. Though an Orc has to wonder sometimes why Blizzard always seemed to favor Alliance in my perspectives, and even 15 years later when we get 1.12AV the Horde is not being considered IMO.

However if you Alliance decide to wear you big boy pants and would like to follow along even if only to discredit me I am sharing links to a video that agrees with my perspectives. Also you should know that even though I was pro Horde at the time, I also had a level 52 NE Warrior who loved free AV wins… but I saw BOTH sides of the fight.

1).https:// youtu.be/zbpgWkPbNc4?t=403
-Alliance had the advantage regardless, however when they were FORCED to fight us we had a chance to win. Geographically we were never meant to win as Horde, but when we had the chance to fight them and our NPCs were stronger they simply had a harder time just zerging in and winning. However Blizzard by this time was already well under way developing the Burning Crusade, so it also began to benefit them to find out what “catch up mechanics” would help players gain things faster so they had a chance to experience the game before BC launched. This (combined with Mark of Honor) helped to create a more shallow version of AV.
https:// wowwiki. fandom. com/wiki/Timeline(World_of_Warcraft)_
July 12 - Patch 1.6.0
Blackwing Lair added
Darkmoon Faire added
September 13 - Patch 1.7.0
Zul’Gurub added
Arathi Basin battleground added
Stranglethorn Fishing Extravaganza
Corrupted Blood begins as the result of a glitch in Zul’Gurub[5]
October 28–29 - BlizzCon 2005 (the first BlizzCon)
*Burning Crusade announced

2).https:// youtu.be/zbpgWkPbNc4?t=701
Mindlessly 40 Alliance players had an advantage already and once they made it easier for them by nerfing NPCs it became blacklisted by most seasoned horde players. We knew they owned AV because of the Geography and the NPCs getting nerfed made the game faster.

3).https:// youtu.be/zbpgWkPbNc4?t=753
The Alliance were most likely the ones complaining the whole time, they were probably the ones that wanted it faster or NPCs nerfed and since we have proof geographically that Blizz favored alliance already the Horde simply stopped playing, Ohh but when the alliance started to have problems winning they began to whine instantly. "Where is my FREE wins Blizz Devs?! WHY did you make my game HARDER? Now that Geography means less and reinforcements got added the horde can just kick our butts and it shows on the scorecard" (referring to when reinforcements were added way later)
Because of geographical conditions, marks system, and nerfs made to NPCs this began the birth of the zerg mentality, and the immersive war we all once had slowly began to become more of an obstacle to just finish and get done with it so we (esp allies because you’re the ones that truly benefited) could get our marks and get out faster.

4).https:// youtu.be/zbpgWkPbNc4
1.10AV is a clear example of how Blizzard was enabling the alliance to start feeling they could “rush” to places and just get the caps done. Combined with the geography that was clearly altered to slim down the map instead of changing the plethora of advantages the Alliance already had. As a Horde player during this time if I had a complaint I kept it to myself and was not involved on forums much at all, I remember thinking it was funny they could slim the map down but did NOTHING about the clear advantages they had with the clear advantage in geography and bunkers specifically that the alliance had.

5).https:// youtu.be/zbpgWkPbNc4?t=827
1.11 AV changes further attempted to “make the bg less pve and more pvp focused” But in reality it was already being spread around through the players (esp alliance) that a zerg was the way to win (esp premades). To add insult to injury marks of honor were needed along with honor to get the gear needed before the release AND burning crusade only made it worse. The ZERG was born… NOT just because Blizzard favored the Alliance but THEY favored the shorter version of AV so people could get their pinatas easier. (Esp Alliance because by this time it was business as usual in AV again Alliance geography still allowed them to rush to our base quicker, which made fighting them in your battlegroup harder across the board as they started getting FREE gear!) Blizzard Devs without realizing it destroyed AV over time for the sake of making it easier to just zerg.

6).https:// youtu.be/zbpgWkPbNc4?t=1030
Now we no longer have PvP in the battleground by this point for sure, it goes to show that the slow degradation and changes to AV were MADE SPECIFICALLY to be faster, and even more convenient for Allies. In the end though all it did was create a Non PvP BG and make a Instanced Zerging rush to the end boss. Now that players have that mentality we need every harder version back, and every version that forces us to work together and fight it out for a win. When we had to fight it out Horde had a chance, though as changes were made both team are just mounting up and racing past one another. 1.12 may not be as bad as a reinforcements game but the NPCs being nerfed is what creates that opportunity for a zerg.

7).http:// youtu.be/zbpgWkPbNc4?t=1085
Horde found a way to win with reinforcements but alliance players flocked ot the forums again to complain and to get their free gear easier… Don’t tell me it didn’t happen I was there reading it myself with my eyes kiddos.

8).https:// youtu.be/zbpgWkPbNc4
Alterac Valley was MEANT to be a PvPvE BG… but with the strange Alliance favoring geographical changes, and the changes to make it faster truly gutted our AV. Now we just go rush and sit in towers or sit in front of the throne room waiting for a cap. All because you Allies wanted your easy gear.
Well I don’t call that fun!

Another opinion similar to my own for those of you who aren’t already typing furiously to try and prove me wrong…
https:// www engadget com/2014/02/21/wow-archivist-the-evolution-of-alterac-valley/

IN CONCLUSION - 1.12AV is a watered down, alliance favoring, zerg enabling version that was created for “catch up” mechanics because they were already planning to release TBC. Versions previous to 1.10 especially were more viable options for Horde to win as Alliance could not just simply RUSH to the end boss unless they had MEGA geared tanks and Healers as well as DPS. We ARE getting an Alliance favored BG. So Horde… get ready to Turtle, work your butt off fighting, and still win 25% of the time. We can’t win the race like they can. Hopefully our weak little NPCs get in a hit or two before they die.

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Yea 1.12AV is like two zerg ships in the night passing eachother . Whats the point?.. get rep then get out apparently …I find no fun in that.

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Let all run past one another, and stand in towers after engaging in minimal pvp. Wait for the cap and move on and then stand in front of the Boss and wait for it to cap and hope we capped towers faster than the other side. Thing is though, Horde DID try and beat them back in the day in 1.12… we could NEVER win that race against pallies.

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/shrug if people choose not to pvp maybe that’s more of problem with pvp?

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The easier the zerg, the more favored the Alliance. I don’t think anyone can argue that to be honest …

Before the addition of reinforcements + timer in patch 2.3 ; there were many discussions on the forums about the issued AV had. Tom Chilton agreed with these issues stating that Alliance was winning 70-80% of the Alterac Valley. That statistics was for TBC but the battleground had not been changed since patch 1.10 so you can assume it was the same in Vanilla.

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Hmm… I seem to recall him saying the win rates were 50/50.

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Still with this “Blizzard doesn’t have the data” stuff? Got a link? I have yet to see a Blizzard statement to corroborate this.

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Check the article: The AV map imbalance in patch 2.3: a different perspective by engadget.
Unfortunately, the direct link to Tom Chilton’s statement is dead and I can’t retrieve it … But the article does talk about it.

And I have to correct myself, the 70-30 ratio was up to 2.2. Then it was 60-40.

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I dont think it was brought up as a main topic, can we talk about AV plzkthx

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You didn’t link an article.

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If it wasn’t in the OP I wouldn’t have brought it up.

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https://www.engadget.com/2008/02/08/the-av-map-imbalance-in-patch-2-3-a-different-perspective/

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Wait 2.3 the patch that added reinforcements? Yes that fundamentally broke AV.

Yeah Patch 2.3 was terrible for AV.

Also wasn’t vanilla and was late BC.

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Look, the idea is that the geography of the map whether or not if the Horde found ways to kick Ally in the back side doesn’t matter. Horde were the under dogs and if the win rates changed it meant we were working together HARD, Allies could mindlessly put in just as much effort.

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So you don’t have any foundation of facts with that part of your OP is what you are saying?

Then I take it you used the same method of factification for the rest of your post?

If it was so poorly balanced as the OP claims. Then why was the historical statistics of Horde participation not lower than Alliance?

Alliance should have had massively long que times. There should have been an outcry on the forums for these things. The statistics might not be provable but at least those 2 should be.

Starting to smell a lot more like fuzzy memory facts and a lot less like reality.

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It was a brand new end game type of BG people loved it at 1.5 more than people think, but a lot of people didn’t want to stop at lvl 50 and so on, they needed to level, farm mats/gold and get ready for raids as well. YES it took a long time, but can you imagine how lame a person has to be for within a month of the brand new BG coming out they already went to the forums to complain! We NEVER need to follow the advice of people like that, they are pessimistic by nature and it’s how we got what we have today!

Right, though it serves as an example of the path AV was taking. Pure degradation and stripping of content is NEVER a good thing for a game that needs to last a long time because it won’t (for the near future or maybe ever as far as we know) have updates.
Edit: SO yes, why don’t we just make Classic the easier version across the board so everyone can get what they want and unsubscribe sooner rather than later because they are bored and have nothing else to grind out… not even smart in a sales perspective lmao.

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I do not say that patch 2.3 is Vanilla …

What I am saying is that the win-loss ratio before patch 2.3 was reaching 70-80% win for Alliance. The battleground had not been changed at all since patch 1.10 / 1.11.

So there are fairly high chances that the win-loss ratio for 1.12 AV in Classic will be the same as the win-loss ratio prior to the changes the battleground undergone in patch 2.3.

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You know, I lived this stuff. I would play after 1.10 for a week straight and get maybe 2 wins a day when we successfully turtled and was able to stop pallies and others from riding past us. I don’t care what “stats” they wanna produce my “fuzzy memory” remembers that for the majority of time AFTER 1.10 Horde avoided AV like the plague, but I stuck around even if I lost I had fun in AV in general… I just didn’t know the idea was to completely destroy what it was. I truly miss that “zone” war… I say that because that’s truly what it felt like. It was so immersive, and even as a level 50 You had a job to do… Sure if I joined a premade things got better, but I still never actually saw Horde constantly winning. Alliance simply had it easier… capping towers was super easy, our GYs were easier to assault, and once NPCs got nerfed further… I SAW the change. “Fuzzy” and all…

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1.5 isn’t the part in question. 1.11/1.12 is. At what point did Blizzard address the concerns in the OP? Or did they leave it that way for all the way through to the current AV?

If Blizzard hasn’t seen a reason to change the balance. They are not going to see a reason to do o now.

Claiming that AV prior to 1.12 has the balance and 1.12 does not has its own issue. So you are stuck with either the wall of #noChange or Blizzard’s belief that 1.12 is the most complete iteration of vanilla.

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What he is saying is that DURING TBC the win rates were that much, on the vanilla patch. What he loves to leave out of this article is that he mentioned that in the early versions of AV alliance had an 80% win rate normally.

So 1.11 AV, although imbalanced, was more balanced than the earlier versions.

He just loves to leave that part out because it doesn’t fit what he wants to say about 1.11

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