Blizzard Punishing People for Backfilling LFR

Community General Discussion
143

Six eggs, half dozen.

Tomayto, tomahto.

You wouldn’t be in a second run at all if you weren’t backfilling, so techncially you could argue they punished you for backfilling BEFORE this change, but now they add a deserter buff on top of it.

That’s where the deserter debuff for doing just that comes from, hence the punishment for backfilling. :wink:

IN OTHER NEWS, I have found a way to avoid the penalty for backfilling: it appears that if you ABANDON THE BACKFILLED GROUP IMMEDIATELY you don’t get debuff. So, you’re NOT punished if you basically tell them to pound sand instead of helping them out, and only punished if you DO help them out.

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144

This must be new. Guess I’ll just plan on having to deal with the debuff or start ignoring all in progress ques.

145

This is only a problem if you enter two consecutive back-filled raids, which hasn’t happened to any of my toons yet. I don’t think this happened to me last few raid tiers either.

146

I’ve seen it happen to me multiple times.

That said, doesn’t matter, because if you abandon the backfilled group immediately you don’t get a penalty…so the answer is to just not help groups in progress at all.

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147

What are you talking about? Here’s the scenario I encountered.

I queued for both LFR raids, I got into the first one at the second boss, killed second / third boss and left. Requeued for the first raid again, actually managed to get into it before the second raid (shrugs, it happened), killed first boss and left (I already killed second and third on the first round). I got deserter debuff and KICKED from the queue for the second raid. So to do the second raid, I now had to wait 30 minutes for NOT staying behind and rekilling bosses I already killed. THIS IS BROKEN!!!

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148

The game doesn’t discriminate between players who selfishly leave raids and players who were backfilled, because it can’t know the difference. The rule is in place because of the former type. What are the chances that killing the other bosses would take a lot less than 30 minutes? Probably really good. What are the chances that you have other things you could do in the game or in your life for 30 minutes besides queue? Also probably extremely good.

The season is early but as time goes on, it will hurt raids more and more to have tanks and healers leave. I’ve experienced LFR groups that fell apart because of the wait to fill. So, this rule exists for a good reason.

149

No if you got into a partial group and finished like you are supposed to the next group you join will be fresh. So no you don’t actually have to kill bosses extra times. Unless you leave a lot more than you hint at.

150

This is not true. The game keeps track of the boss loot IDs, and it also shows that info in the LFR tool for each wing, showing available and killed bosses.

So the game could also allow a clean LFR wing exit in the middle, when all bosses in the list are red.

When this does not work, it is a bug, and laziness from the devs to implement deserter properly.

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151

You already killed them why do you need to que again? Go do normal raid and you dknt have this issue at all.

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152

What are the chances that for the last 19+ years it’s worked fine, and no need for this STUPID change that didn’t do a single thing to the trinket farmers, as they STILL left after the first boss. GG Blizzard, just keeping adding to the list of reasons that TWW is by far the worst expansion ever (and none of them have anything to actually do with the gameplay, which I have actually enjoyed, just brain dead decisions like this, the new character select screen, STEALING ALL OUR GUILD BANK ITEMS, etc.)

And oh BTW they do know which bosses you have / haven’t killed. Leaving when all are RED (dead) shouldn’t give you a deserter debuff. That should take maybe 15 minutes for a competent programmer to add to the code.

153

But it didn’t and never worked. There were always LFDs and LFRs that were screwed over by selfish leavers. And, yes, the debuff has vastly improved my experience in LFD. There are very few leavers now compared to the amount of leavers before the debuff. Just because it didn’t reduce that number to zero doesn’t mean it didn’t work.

I don’t know why Blizzard doesn’t institute debuffs based on raid IDs. I do know that nuance is not something this company is good at. It is what it is. It’s 30 minutes – find something to do in the game or in your life, take a break, do chores, farm mats, etc. If you’re this worked up over an video game expansion, then maybe that 30 minute debuff should be spent cooling off.

154

It’s 30 minutes that I have to play the game, it’s time I allocated out of a schedule. If you can’t figure that out, than I will provide you my VENMO and you can pay my sub. Otherwise, NO I will not stop complaining about this STUPID fix that didn’t accomplish a single thing. Every single Ara-Kara run I do on Heroic / M0 still has 1 or more people leave after Avanoxx dies. So yeah, the “fix” you are claiming made things better didn’t do a SINGLE THING. To make it clear, I’m saying I do NOT believe your non-sense that this fixed everything.

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155

BTW, who are you to judge the reason anyone ever left a LFD or LFR? What if they left for a legitimate reason? You have absolutely no idea, you don’t pay for their subscriptions, and you have no right to force them to stay. As what you’re suggesting is that the only TRUE fix is to remove the “leave” button from LFR and LFR, forcing everyone to stay. Good luck with that.

156

We all have limited time to play. I don’t schedule my raid times on days when 30 minutes cannot be spared, and speaking frankly, no one should. Queue times, number of wipes, etc. vary widely, so I find your argument that your time constraints are that rigid to be without merit.

I cannot think of a single player who does not have a thing to do in this game other than queue; make the most of your time by doing literally anything you were going to do anyways in the game, or take a break and cool off.

You don’t pay my sub either. See how this works? You are playing a game with other people. It is rude and inconvenient to leave other players hanging. This is why the debuff exists. No one is forcing you to stay. Exercise your freedom to leave in exchange for the penalty. It’s the price of belonging to any community where selfish jerkwads ruin it for everyone. I have the overwhelming inkling that those people are even more titled about the debuff than you are.

It sounds like you just don’t like this expansion are jaded from playing a lot. Why keep playing if the game makes you this angry?

157

well this thread is a bit dramatic

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158

Let me try and explain this again, because it’s clear you’re not getting it. I joined a LFR raid that has 3 bosses. When I joined, the first boss was already dead (someone left, for whatever reason they felt like, not anyone’s place to judge them for why they did, their sub right?) I killed the remaining two bosses, leaving only one boss left. I requeued which puts me earlier in the queue and guarantees that I get into a fresh group. I join, I kill the boss, and I leave. There is NO reason for me to be punished for leaving. There is NO reason for me to stay, I’ve already killed the bosses, and I’m not getting loot. So no I’m not wasting my time killing them again. This isn’t me being selfish, this is me being logical. The person who you want to accuse of being selfish was the person who left and I backfilled for. Don’t try to put this on me, and heck for all you know, that person was also a backfill. We will never know why the first person left, but that is on them. Punishing me, because I left when there was ZERO reason for me to stay, is stupid. The fact that you don’t see that is quite concerning. The fact that you continue to stand here and DEFEND Blizzard for this, says a lot.

And as for my time, I don’t queue for LFR when I’m doing my chores, a lot of them require me to queue (world boss, delves, theater troupe, special assignments, etc.) and thus would remove me from queue for LFR anyway. So yeah, it is a MAJOR inconvenience if this happens in the way it did this last week to me. Forcing me to wait 30 minutes to queue for the second wing of LFR, all because I joined an in-progress group.

What I can guarantee you is that when my queue pops, and it says in-progress, I will click decline. I will NEVER join an in-progress group of any kind ever again. And I suggest others do the same.

I’ve been playing since launch, and have managed to level a lot of characters in that time. What I don’t do is play to be in-efficient. Having a FORCED timeout for me playing the game in a completely LOGICAL and efficient way is not anything anyone can defend. The game doesn’t make me angry, stupid changes like this one, like the new character select screen, like refusing to give us back our guild bank items, those kind of things make me angry. I actually like this expansion, what I don’t like is the way Blizzard is treating their customers.

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159

You seem really angry in all of your posts in this thread. Stop and think about what this is really about.

160

It’s about undoing a change that should have never been made. You just refuse to get it. You can keep trying to defend this change, but you’re wrong. There is no way to defend this. You can’t force people to stay in a raid for bosses they have already killed, that they will receive no loot for, and than punish them for leaving.

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161

Did you know that when ice cream sales drop in Chicago, the murder rate goes down?

Would you say that ice cream causes people to murder others?

(If not, maybe you’ll be on the path to learning the difference between correlation and causation, and might recognize that maybe there are fewer people leaving now not because of this change, but because they’re not in your group to begin with now that Mythic and Mythic+ are out.)

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162

The debuff was implemented a week before M0 rolled out. That week saw significant improvements in my LFD experience with respect to leavers.