Slippery slope fallacy. If you don’t like a feature, don’t use it. It really is that simple. If you have time to travel to a dungeon, and would rather group w guildies, great! Most of us are gainfully employed adults now, my time is too valuable to be riding on a flight path for no reason and doubling the time it takes to complete a dungeon or chain dungeons. Retail is trash, so it’ll just be a couple lost subs from me.
Have fun with the current 30k realm communities. Such manageable little utopias.
It’s not a slippery slope fallacy, it’s based on the objective historical trajectory of the game once it was added. The RDF is definitely the beginning of a slippery slope.
“Adding x-realm RDF hurt the social side of WoW” is not exactly exclaiming anything profound. There have been literal thesis papers and dissertations on this subject. Most people (prior to this debate) would have simply acknowledged this as an obvious truth.
I’m afraid your comment got buried in the thread but I 100% agree. One can’t say “if you don’t like it don’t use it” when there are bonus rewards tied specifically to using the LFD system. So people might not like the system but they’ll still use it if they like the REWARDS that ONLY come with that system.
We all saw how “optional” world buffs was in vanilla classic. Did everyone looooooove the world buffs mechanic? How many people go to work everyday because they just simply love their jobs? Can it be that more people do their jobs, not because of the job itself but because of the rewards they get from it?
The reason the game became more anti-social had nothing to do with RDF. Here is why…
Up till WotLK the game mostly focused on progressive game play. While there was many casuals in the game, the casuals didnt have many catch up mechanics or things they could actually do.
Blizz seen this was a problem and tried to correct this issue with Wrath at the start (BEFORE RDF WAS ADDED). They created an expansion where it was super easy to level alts with everything from heirlooms and also had many catch up mechanics, plus tons of daily quest casuals could do to get rep for many rewards.
The problem is maybe Blizz over corrected and it made the game more interesting to super casuals players who just didnt care or posses the skills needed for higher end content. So you often end up with those now super casuals in dungeons and even popping up into raids who had not spent enough time on their class to fully learn it clashing with the more hardcore progressive players. This is what lead to more toxic interactions.
The RDF tool only exposed this issue to many, when it guilds started pugging a spot or two in dungeon runs using the tool. Progressive players would be like, hey lets run a dungeon, but just happen their tank for the most part was raid logging for example. So the guildies would que up, get some random moron that couldnt tank a bowel of Jello, or healer that didnt know how to heal with heavy pulls or on the go in the dungeon and it would end up pissing both sets of players off. Thus RDF didnt cause the issue, it just poured salt on an already festering wound.
What i do not understand is why we have a paid real money level boost, but LFD is somehow off the table for leveling up.
Just ditch all the end game content from applying to LFD from 60-80, as leveling is mainly what it was useful for. And since everyone will be at end game, mostly, there are people who enjoy leveling, they just want the groups to be formed automatically. I say let that happen. Groups are going to be impossible to form for lower levels later on without LFD.
Then everyone can get that on foot end game experience that everyone wants without LFD, and those who want to actually level can level up.
I don’t much care either way. But I think there’s a case to be made for the dungeon finder in Wrath, particularly since how many people do the daily in Wrath for the badge gear. Maybe a compromise and only introduce after a couple months? That way many of the friendships that form in early launch would still be made, etc.
I think it’s undisputable that a dungeon finder lowers player interaction, makes people more rude, etc, particularly when it is cross server. But I also understand respecting players’ time, particularly when the daily heroic or badge farming is a big part of the expansion. The case for keeping the dungeon finder out of Wrath, however, is somewhat diminished when we’ve had two expansions without (and will have them in the future at various intervals).
Well now. I think you are referring to your own guild mates correct? Because on my server every single pug group I see come across the screen are people I do not know or even care to know. Every single day its completely different player names. I don’t know where they come from or where yesterdays name went.
This will have no effect on server with population close to 10k. Only people on the low pop servers are complaining about this and you would think they would be happy to finally have someone to do a dungeon with.
I could careless either way if it is in the game or not.
As someone who has played since Vanilla, RDF was used heavily by my guild to catch up alts, get whatever raid slots we needed/new players up to speed for end content. Our guild used it way more than YOU would think because it made getting a partial guild group together, easier. You know, for dungeons. Not raiding. Dungeons. Cause apparently all anti-RDF’ers think dungeons are what keeps the game relevant and not the end game content.
Path of least resistance my butt. Guild runs will decrease…LMAO. Cause there’s SO MANY guilds out there running dungeons in TBC, right? cause that’s SO RELEVANT to endgame. RDF kept dungeons useful and PLAYED. Not just by the botters/GKDP’ers looking for the stuff to res, but by thousands of people who didn’t have time to destroy their brains looking at LFG chat. Or using an add-on (which I find hilarious! they made an add-on to make finding groups easier, but don’t want RDF…lol, WUT?)
I just don’t get it. We want Wrath Classic…but not things that were in it, but we’re fine with DS right out of the gate, and 70 boosts, but not that thing that actually was helpful! Cause that’ll ruin the spirit of the original! LMAO.
You either want Wrath Classic, as it was, or you don’t ACTUALLY want WotLK classic, you want some version of it that you want to force other people to play cause you’re so confident in the fact that your way is the ONLY way to actually play the game.
I hope Blizz walks back on the no RDF, and if that makes the anti-RDF’ers not play, fine with me and everyone I know in my guilds. Oh, and Warmane, which has a solid rep for being true to Wrath…has RDF. Again, you know, FOR DUNGEONS.
That is because they are grey parsing guildless bottom feeders whose only endgame is dungeons. They want the rest of us to suffer like them, not realizing they’re being used by blizzard to sell a convenient lie that this change was meant for “muh community”. In reality blizz wants to sell 70 boosts, and having LFD will cut into those profits. These lemmings are convenient tools that blizz uses to justify their money grabbing actions at the expense of the quality of life for real players.
…a claim backed by numerous content creator polls, straw polls, forum polls that consistently skew heavily towards pro-LFD regardless of the personal stance of the content creator and the crowd they appeal to.
AKA “A Youtuber that is against removing LFD make a poll and his followers mass-voted to keep dungeon finder in the game.”
Yea, we’ve all seen that poll. Talk to me when you get a poll that isn’t being promoted/pushed on someones channel who is encouraging their followers to vote a certain way.
I said multiple, not a singular poll. You can look at every single poll done by both Pro and Anti LFD youtubers and the numbers show consistently that people support LFD. I understand that upsets you and your narrative but unfortunately for your delusions, that is reality.
You realize guilds and dungeon finder aren’t mutually exclusive? During wrath I ran with my guild when guild mates were available. If they weren’t and i had an hour to kill, i’d queue up in DF. If you only had a partial guild group, you would queue up as a group.
This Post Hoc fallacy really needs to stop. Many of the detrimental effects to the community people blame on DF are already happening in TBCC. Is it the dungeon finder’s fault when the feature isn’t even in the game?
I also don’t see how having more opportunity to interact with people is somehow anti-social. With LFG channel today, you might get a run or two in a couple hour play session. With DF this would increase significantly while also allowing the player to leave the capital city and go out into the world; again increasing the likelihood of social interaction.