Blizz, Either do something about Epic Premade Battleground players or allow everyone to queue as a raid

yes, but i don’t exceed safety parameters. and to answer your question on driver skill, i used to race cars and have a 3DOF simrig with which i play assetto corsa and iracing. i do in fact know how to drive.

again, no official rule against syncing.

I never questioned as such but colour me shocked that your professional experiences entitle you to thinking you’re above the rules.

It was referenced above that theyve explicitly said theyre against it? Perhaps its not against ToS yeah you’re correct there.

as i said, use your judgement. reality isn’t a computer program, you aren’t bound to rules because a new patch came out. you are a creature of free will. every time you drive or go out you are breaking some sort of law and probably don’t even know it because it would seem so inconsequential you would think it a joke to be pulled over for it.

when it comes to epics, i can’t ignore that massive amount of positivity that growing epic communities has created. all the drama and rivalry feeds on itself, communities group up and face each other and the winner gets bragging rights on the forums the next day, in turn the forum drama adds context and value to epics by turning a random game and assortment of people into something important. if you queue into a group of randoms and its a tough game and you lose, well that was just a tough game. if you queue into a rival community that has been talking trash on the forums for weeks, now the stakes matter. you have to win and take back your honor. i haven’t seen anything like this level of player engagement in wow in years, probably not since wrath when my raid guild had a massive rivalry with an ally raid guild on the same server, and raid nights would often turn into massive 25v25 wpvp brawls at the ulduar summoning stone.

the fact is the epic scene feels like the last bastion of true wow while the rest of the game slowly dies to toxic corporate zombification.

Ill beleive it when i see it. Ill queue epics next week and see if i notice you guys.

I still think youre stuck in a vacuum unable to understand how youve fallen to the dark side. 20 enjoyment over ruining 40 and all that.

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1st option is the best, but let’s be honest it’s beyond Blizzard’s capabilities.

If that’s what you’re looking for, then go do war games with other large organized groups.

Instead, you’re going against random pugs most of the time. Pugs are abiding by the rules. You’re not.

^ This.

I’ve done this with my lock lol

Also I find it funny that Ogpapabear is so infamous and bothers people so much that he got a 3 day suspension for calling himself white trash. Hahahaha. Those are the lengths people go because he lives rent free in their heads.

we all wanna be lookin’ cute feelin’ cute tbh cmon, dont try to deny it.

not banning syncing que times does not decrease que times, because you are not decreasing the amount of people quing, nor are you increasing the amount of people quing when they que sync, i dont really understand what the struggle is here.

the que is due to faction imbalance and blizzards seeming inability to simply change all bg quing to cross faction enabled merc mode, whereby it fills 20/40/80 people into two teams that are roughly equal in composition and total gear level after alotting them a position within the bg. this would solve a majority of the issues facing bgs. bgs would never ever have lopsided quing for one faction again, racials would not really be a significant factor in bgs, impact of one “faction” having an edge in bgs due to bg design would be lessened since the faction you spawn as swaps randomly (because asking blizzard to design mirrors is a bridge too far and we all need to accept this apparently) healer numbers would be balanced pre-game and as such, while there may be a one or two disparity due to leavers possible, it wont be one vs 11 as some games spawn with. and, sync quing would be irrevocably destroyed forever, no matter the limitation (even if only 1 person que syncs) as the teams are sorted after the participants are found, thus syncing que would simply mean you were same game. then they just ramp up the consequences for gameplay sabotage and eventually the garbage would take itself out and the game would continue on as normal.

instead they sit on their hands as pvp and the playerbase dies. ohh no! maybe next xpac we get the rumored new arena map repurposed as a brawl! as if brawls are anything but more pve for a bunch of them, since thats the only concept blizzard seems to be able to thing of.

The struggle is you not reading my previous responses on this topic apparently.

The entire premise of this thread is the OP complaining about the increasing popularity of premade teams. This would therefore imply that more people are partaking in this form of interacting with ebgs than previously. Which therefore means one of 2 things. Either the number and ratio of players have remained the same but now more of them are part of premades. Or more people have started doing ebgs due to the desire to play in a premade team. From what I’ve seen of the change of q times, it’s the latter that has occured. Which will definitely affect q times. Or I suppose half the ally player base has unsubbed. Which I guess is a possibility.

All this hand wringing about premades is still missing the elephant in the room. 100% pugs getting thrown against each other whilst one team has zero heals and the other has 5-10 will imbalance the match way more than premades ever could.

Good thing for the timely bumps, it’s premade-city tonight :flushed:

Every epic BG seems sweaty today for some reason, not sure if it’s “just a Tuesday thing” or if tryhards are queuing for the weekly quest… but it’s def noticeable. And this trying-too-hard/sweaty/aggressive behavior from random pugs definitely seems unusual on the surface

afk for a bit/stepping outside, hopefully the tryhards and “weekly quest tourists” have cleared out by the time I get back

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Im not the one struggling. repeating the same erronious statement 3x does not in fact make it less eronious, that you cannot comprehend this isnt really a me problem.

theres no evidence that more people are playing ebgs by any notable amount, people who would be quing are simply quing together because they can cheat and win more. the que time is not indicative of premades, its indicative of faction imbalance, a fact you continue to ignore, but, one that does not change just because you refuse to accept it.

You clearly are and the fact that you keep saying the same nonsense whilst ignoring everything I’ve said and how I’ve already addressed your claims repeatedly is the issue.

Yes there is. But like all evidence posted on this forum, it’s all anecdotal. But anecdotal evidence is literally all any of us have unless you have access to blizzs internal data analytics. It just so happens that my anecdotal evidence goes all the way back to BfA and can be corroborated by any of the ally or horde premade comm leads. The source of this could be from a number of things. Either there’s been a huge drop in horde players or an increase in ally players or some combination thereof, thus changing the faction ratio. Npc mercs do not make up enough of significant number to affect it on this scale.

As I’ve said repeatedly, the increasing popularity of premades (which is the whole point of the OP) is indicative of more people playing in premades. Which most likely means more people playing in total. It also probably means more people from within the existing pool moving to premades. But both can be true at the same time. If someone starts having more fun because they’re winning more often, then that will naturally attract more people. How do you think Ruin became as popular as it did?

I never ignored it and mentioned it previously where there are multiple factors at play, including the fact that it could be due to more ally players or less horde players queuing up. Either factor would have the same result.

Unfortunately you keep refusing to acknowledge how I’ve already addressed all your “points” and mentioned how they already fit into the situation I have described. How are you this obtuse? How do you seriously not see that if premades are becoming increasingly popular, than it is natural to assume that that means more people are therefore playing within premades and that that could very easily mean either more of the existing pool of ebg players are joining premades (less likely due to the q time changes since BfA) or more people from outside the pvp comm are joining up with premades due to the fact that they’re more fun to play in (more likely as it would explain the change in q times)?

At this point I’m going to have to assume you’re just out to troll me and put you on ignore so I don’t see any further nonsense from you. Bye.

“ALL YOUR SAYING IS ANECDOTAL BECAUSE YOU DONT HAVE THE INTERNAL DATA”

also

“EVERYTHING I AM SAYING IS SELF EVIDENT AND THUS DOESNT NEED ANY DATA”

yea ok bud.

there is no evidence you have provided that premades are making people who dont pvp, suddenly pvp. none. the people who play in premades are the people who would play bgs anyways. therefor they would already be part of the que, and since they would already be a part of the que whether 40 people que together or que independantly does not, in fact, affect the que times for the other side, because the other side is, shockingly, still imbalanced.

who knew.

you can try to ignore that, i honestly dont care, thats is, like i said, not a me problem. your inability to accept that reality is not a me problem. you can argue i dont have the data, sure, thats true, neither do you, thus by that circular logic you defeat your own arguement. so, gg fam, you played yourself.

also, you dont need to “announce” you ignored me, because we both know theres no ignore on the forums, and i dont care. it doesnt affect me in the slightest, bye felicia. :wink:

This is the only way to make queued BGs fair. It also would reduce queue times for everyone because the BG would pop as soon as enough people are queued (regardless of faction).

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i mean this is prettymuch how matchmaking works in EVERY SINGLE competitive pvp game. matchmaking finds people, and from that groups players.

not wow though, too advanced.

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I always wonder whether the rumors are true, and WoW devs secretly like the Horde dominating in PvP.

At the very least, we can see that WoW devs are opposed to introducing more matchmaking functionality into the game. They want everything to be premade.

outside of premades, horde objectively does not dominate though. being the lower population, the teams are constantly filled with undergeared players and an extreme lack of healers (though to be fair i have also been in games with 8 horde healers to 1 alliance healer).

my char win rates for new chars on horde are in the 30%tile. which is bad, seething shore is like 11% lmao, but these are low game counts and purely anecdotal.

whether my team will listen to any effort at forming a strategy is a cointoss, sometimes sure and even if we are undergeared if we have a plan vs an uncoordinated mess it can be a win… those are typically the rewarding ones. the battles you have to fight hard to earn. but through sheer numbers? on blizzards end? i highly doubt the horde is winning the majority of bgs as a whole.

it seems worse than when i farmed my battlemaster title in 2010, when my battlegroup was heavily slanted towards alliance winning and my average w/l over hundreds of games was around 30%. it picked up from there, then it went the opposite, and now it seems to be way back.

the reality is though, that its largely irrelevant to the game. its not good for one “side” to ever be winning more than 40% of the time, if it dips below that it should be setting off alarm bells and they should be trying to fix it. 50/50 is simply unreasonable. theres far too many odds to juggle.

i think they simply refuse to put in the work into the system to remake their matchmaking. they would have to start from the ground up with the matchmaking tool, since it doesnt have a lobby or assembly area where it can sort to teams… so they just look at the cost and pretend its not an issue. this game has a dwindling playerbase though. i know thats super super brave, so brave, to say… but its not just a cliche statement, its the truth, and casual bgs is a huge thing that casual players are involved in, in this game. having miserable win loss rates, toxic cheating que abusers and premades, on top of massive team imbalances just furthers negative sentiment and drives people away. cross faction and pre-game teambalancing via forced mercinary tool is the only real route they can go to stem the tide and create a longterm fix that will scale out well no matter how the game performs in the future. it works if you scale up the playerbase, it works if you scale it down.

who knows if we will see changes now that microsoft is in charge and not pennypinching kotick. microsoft wants money, but they also dont mind spending money on making things easier for people.

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Probably not considering Horde get demolished in brawls and random BGs with only the premades saving them in epics. Even the rated ladder has shifted to Alliance in DF.

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