Just because you roleplay that youre doing military flanking maneuvers into pugs doesnt mean epics are a middle ground to ranked.
I understand, but also think it would be fine given the scale. Just let you guys fight it out. King of the hill works with 2 people, its just better with more.
Because people like you break the promise of random you sentient grain of corn
i donât mean it as a stepping stone in progression. lets break that idea here and now: pvp is an assortment of various formats, it is not a progression of difficulties. some players may choose to practice in unrated before moving on to rated. but that is not the same as a PVE guild moving from heroic to mythic. each of these formats of pvp have their dedicated players and each format has players who are generally the top of their game at that format. this is why if you take an arena player and put him in an epic or rbg, he isnât as good as he is in arena, he practiced and mastered a different format and is at the bottom of the totem pole in this new format.
epics function as a middle ground between casual and rated because if you get into epics you will have an epic specific build, get epic specific consumables, and learn the various uses of toys and gadgets. epic builds are also not as straight forward as others, you need to be able to cover a wide range of scenarios and situations from large AoE heavy teamfights to cc heavy choke control to smaller 1v1, 2v2, and 3v3 fights. the depth of mastery in AV alone has kept players coming back for almost 2 decades.
is Briâs team any different? if you are taking so much firepower in your one 5 man that the outcome of the match is not in doubt, then the only thing random is the map you get.
Yes. They are. Because theyre within the rules. Thats literally the only difference and the important one. 5mans are allowed. Raids arent. You circumvent with synced 5mans.
Part of the design of 40mans after the fall of vanilla is their randomness. The struggle of having 40 chickens with their heads cut off working together towards a commonly understood objective.
If you could simply type defense SHGY and it happened with a tailored selection of randoms, youd never lose.
Instead you get either a) no defense b) successful defense c) trade one point for another due to low communication
and poor coordination d) failed defense due to losing a fight or e) too many players defend one node and its a net loss.
Or a mixture of the above including other scenarios not listed.
In other words. Chaos.
That balance is reflefted on both sides of a random epic. Where stuff works or doesnt randomly based on multiple factors.
When you preform only one side is victim of the random. And this can only really affect something as large scale as an epic preform.
I dont think the variety of modern 10ms are as chaotic. Generally the pattern is one side wins the innitial confrontation and the other sits in the GY and waits for a new queue. The only ones where randoms really coordinate is AB and Gorge where theres enough room to spread out and breathe.
Thosw two also become gy camps in worst case scenarios but yea. I wouldnt compare 10m to 40m that readily. Just different games.
Wsg has some good pug matches but it trends to gy camping when its too unmatched.
I really regret modern inexhaustible class design contributing to gy camping.
Freshly respawning players with full health and resources shouldnt die to the siege.
how many times does the typical raid team kill any particular boss while it is current? maybe a dozen or two times? iâve played thousands of epics in every way you can, im telling you that they are best played with an organized group, not a big chaotic mass of headless chickens.
and no, Briâs group isnât any different, its just as unfair for a solo pug to face her than it is for them to face me. from the pugâs perspective their chances of winning are 0% regardless of if the premade followed the size limitation or not, so that variable doesnât matter.
You donât get to determine whatâs fair. Blizzard does and they obviously feel 5 mans are fair. Itâs a compromise to âplaying with friendsâ without breaking the spirit of PvP. Youâre using a 5 man ranked group to justify what you do, but no matter how you slice it, they are within the confines of the rules set by Blizzard. You are not so there is definitely a difference. Itâs bizarre that you are incapable of understanding or accepting that.
for 10 man games. a lot has happened since then.
and we already covered rules and rulebreaking being a moral imperative to being human.
Blizzardâs game. Blizzardâs rules. What part of that are you not understanding? You seem to think youâre above the rules for âreasonsâ.
you fail to understand my point, blindly following the rules and pressuring others to blindly follow rules is categorically evil. the best example would be the milgram experiment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
the better argument is on the fairness of premades, not whether what they do breaks the rules or not.
Horrible comparison as this is a game and games benefit from rules to encourage both sides to enjoy participating.
You participate in bad faith.
no, my point is that one should not blindly follow the rules, you have rational thought and judgement, use them.
also, iirc there is no official rule against syncing, when the addon Oqueue was broken they basically said they werenât going to do anything further and would do nothing about players syncing. they lifted the group size restriction on classic, how is it going over there?
Not for AV or IoC. You cannot group more than 5 players and queue AV or IoC. You can try to sell that lie to the crowd, but Blizzard wonât buy it so youâre wasting your time.
what lie??
That they lifted group restrictions in classic. Itâs classic. It was already a part of the version of the game they are revisiting.
yeah, i donât play classic, which is why i was asking. so where do you come in accusing me of a lie?
You said they lifted it, not in question form, but as a statement. Thatâs not true so what else would you like me to call it?
i would call it i donât play classic and didnât know they only lifted it for some things, i had only heard they lifted the restriction.
again, why are you so quick to accuse?
So now youâre a victim? You said it as if it were fact. You brought it into the discussion. Maybe donât bring things up that are irrelevant especially if you donât know it to be true.
there some reason you are being toxic? you could have just been like âthat doesnât apply to IoC/AVâ and we could have moved on, instead you accuse me of being a liar for what? a simple lack of knowledge about something i admit i lack knowledge about?
âto err is humanâ -alexander pope
âto err means you are a liarâ -consensus
This is my last comment on this specific subject because you seem to have a victim complex. You brought it up thinking it somehow made your argument stronger. If you had asked, I would have answered. You didnât ask. But youâre not the first sync queue premader who has tried to make that argument on classic grouping. Itâs not true, but even if it were there are many things different on the classic versions of WoW from retail. The game has evolved over 20 years and things change.
The irony in you calling someone toxic when youâre sync queuing and stomping pugs day after day.
Do you reconsider and doubt the rules of the road when you drive? Are you above the law when behinds the wheel âbecauae youâre a good driverâ?
Context matters on when to reconsider and adjust the rules.
When in the context of a game, the rules in place are to protecting and ensure the enjoyment of both parties involved so that the game can retain its primary purposes. Selling, and Enjoyment.
If the white team in chess never lost you would have a hard time convincing black to play.
The rules regarding party limitations and groups for 40mans are implemented as blizzard has decided as such. For the benefit of all, or the detriment of the format has yet to be seen.
You can question the rules youre free to do that. But questioning rules doesnt mean breaking them. Those are separate actions.