Bri’s group is likely to get matched against a similar sized premade (2 to 5 players).
Premade raids are not likely to get matched against other premade raids, because there aren’t supposed to be premade raids in random bgs. Most of their games are against pugs.
Furthermore, all the queues they drop in their attempts to circumvent the system is another game that starts with one team missing 10+ players.
Blizzard has explicitly stated they don’t want premade raids in random bgs because they drive players away from PvP.
If you don’t believe Blizzard, look at all the pugs leaving those extremely one-sided games. Players would rather take the deserter debuff and not PvP than stay in the game against a cheating premade raid. Their replacements also leave the game. The replacements for the replacements also leave the game. Etc.
Here you are again trying to take the moral high ground. You are no better. You are ruining the game experience for a lot of players and you do this daily. It’s not a random event. Its an every day thing. Get off the high horse.
no, everyone is there to play epics, we even branch out from there and do other stuff. if people were solely interested in pugstomping (pub is from tf2/cs, wow uses pug) then they wouldn’t sit thru losses.
im not saying there aren’t groups out there who’s goal is pugstomping, but my group would be better seen as a large scale equivalent to a epic bg guild.
given the way the queue system works, even if 100 people queued individually or in groups would be irrelevant, a portion of them would get into the next pop and would have enough to coordinate and control the game. if that outcome can’t be changed, then we might as well try and group up in order to avoid stuff like splits and toxic pugs.
My phone is having a heart attack trying to quote from different posts so ill get back to you once im home.
I just dont understand the issue i guess. I dont think you have to form a queue for individual 5mans. I just also think syncing 20s flys in the face of what epic bgs are modernly designed to be. (Chaotic).
I think you guys are victims of depopulation.
There used to be 10s of AV lobbies where id just queue for next available. And that was just my low pop battlegroup.
Merging bgs uoud think there would be countless more
If you are saying theres only 2-3 EBGs running at a time that would impact how much epic bg players get to queue.
I think maybe from this perspective segregating epics from 10ms was a mistake. But idk if id stand by that in the context of preforms.
Side note but epics are quite literally dead below 70 which i cant fathom.
Something is seriously wrong with the current playerbases opinion and interest towards pvp. Which is likely blizzards fault making gameplay so unfriendly the last few expansions
Epic bgs were great leveling intermissions. I really miss them.
this is where we differ on opinion, i think epics are best played with large organized groups. military concepts like morale, discipline, coordination and momentum matter here more than other pvp formats. same is true for formation movement, nowhere else in the game can you say you successfully pulled off a flanking charge and routed the enemy team.
solo kb farmers prefer unorganized chaotic matches because they operate best in the pvp equivalent of the fog of war.
they have always been dead below cap, and you don’t want to play them anyway because the low level scaling combined with epic numbers means massive lag.
Old server specifc av, witn no time limit. And slower longer epics where you couldnt ignore towere and such lended it to this and I agree.
Im just acknowledging that blizzard seems to want epics to be over with. And since they want small groups of individuals, they want chaos with pockets of leadership rather than coordination.
I think epics have the potential for what youre talking about but the current state of the game doesnt facilitate it well. A better avenue would be large scale world pvp. Like warsong battalion vs clan battlehammer of old. Using caves and landscape, positioning and tactics to resist overwhelming numbers.
Again, wpvp. But also 10ms like wsg. Flanking works wth 2 as well as 200.
Don’t talk about what you dont know. Or if you do open you phrasing to allow for such ignorance.
Yeah i agree. Its the biggest failing of modern wow. But ive seen it with success on ED. Although i cant tell you what they did to avoid the phasing issue
no ive spent several hours in queue waiting for a pop at various times over the last two expansions, the one game i ever got into was an ashran and my AoE rotation made everyone run in place.
My point is you say always whe its only died in modern expansions. Ive queued epics on alts since before exp was awarded for pvping. Especially in tbc the 61-70 was probably the most active and popular baracket. Where 61s were put in the same AV as geared 70s lol.
So when you say “they’ve always been dead below cap” thats just categorically false.
thinking more about this i really think it was just an oversight. in 8.0 they split epics off into their own bracket because they were the two most blacklisted maps and they wanted to get rid of the blacklist to solve the queue issues it caused. enough people liked AV and IoC they couldn’t just delete the maps so they got their own queue.
the 5 man limit is due to them originally being mixed in the same queue as WSG, with the idea being a premade shouldn’t control more than 50% of a team. the oversight happened when they moved the 40 man bgs to their own queue but didn’t increase the group limit to 20. im not sure why entirely, but the pvp dev that was doing a lot of this is one of the ones who quit i think because when he did we stopped getting stuff for epics, both rated 25v25 and an epic version of Arathi Warfront was in the works and that work ceased when he quit.
i don’t think this is a case of blizz wants us playing in groups of 5 or even cares so much as its a case of a bunch of other work was going on and this didn’t even make the radar of concerns.
It makes sense, it could be an oversight. But with blizzard also specifically sayinf they dont want large 40m preforms i think their current stance is clear until otherwise stated.
When i say segregating was a mistake i simply mean dividing the pool of pvp players is bad for the game since pvp is already a small pool.
Return bans so people who hate epics can cancel out WG and Ashran or whatever they hate and carry on with Random random bgs.
Ive epic preformed before with an all dwarf rp guild. We just played defense and whittled the horde down and it was fun cause we just were stormpike elites. I understand the enjoyment of having a flank come through and blast a line open. Its fun to epic preform.
But its also unfair.
Epic preform into epic preform would be nice. But if that happens just create a epic bg rated bg format.
the general issue is that you can’t have a bracket of 4-6 teams. rbgs have their issues already and this would be magnified in epics. on top of that epics are already a sort of middle ground between casual and rated that many epic players are comfortable with, it would be hard to get them to move into a rated mode when rated rules remove essential parts of the epic experience.
the system used to try to match premade with premade, not sure why blizz stopped, maybe queue times. but imo the most epic games are the ones where it is premade vs premade and comes down to one or two kills or a single clutch play at the last minute. granted you can’t have that every game, but it would certainly happen a lot more often if epic communities could queue as a raid and then let the system fill in any remaining roster with solos and smaller groups.
the system only promises a random game, it does not promise a fair one.