Blizz devs to their playerbase

Community General Discussion
81

What do I want?

For Mythic + to not be some kiting insanity and go back to how they were in BfA difficulty wise. They’ll still be hard at the higher keys anyway…

For them to not force me down a storyline I don’t find interesting, hold my hand ALL THE TIME, and feels more like a chore than fun honestly. Just allow people to do your storyline in bits and pieces like WoD, and give them more experience for bonus objectives again especially if you’re going to make it a grindy mess.

To redesign underperforming, underplayed specs in the least. Or at least do partial redesigns of various specs like perhaps Survival Hunter. I looked forward to class revamps for years because it kept things fresh. Now we have systems that aren’t exciting, far less interesting than in Legion, and don’t make playing the class any better. I Diablo III at least they give you sets that do different things that open up different playstyles, but even then we’re at the mercy of the Devs creativity. We used to have big talent trees, Glyphs, and class changes. Now we have quick switch minimal talent trees, no glyphs, and barely any class changes.

Make your single player/small group content more rewarding and fun to go back into. Add in more achievments that are fun to do for Torghast and TC, add in special minibosses or bosses in hidden optional rooms that drop transmog, pets, or mounts. Continue iterating on this, because honestly Twisting Corridors was a let down as I thought it was going to be a place to go farm pets, mounts, or whatever for fun and it wasn’t and I could swear Blizzard even said it would be.

Make the Maw a place we go to for other reasons other than 1 rare mount, stygia, and some rep. Add in rare cool bosses that a raid group is needed for that has cool loot. Add in minibosses off the beaten path that are tough as hell and require hidden items to even fight. Add in some puzzles in the world like from Nazjitar, add in random fights like Mechagon, hell anything you know that worked and made people go out for fun. And now that we attack the Maw and the threats are less in 9.1 is the time to do all this.

Add in rewards for Twisting corridors based on the layer completed, and yes I mean gear. Shouldn’t a player that has completed a layer 8, or in the future higher, twisting corridors get a potential gear reward from this that can double as potential transmog? Why not? The downside is unlike raids it could drop a specific model and not give us a token like raids, but is a nice boost for players if they complete it. It doesn’t have to be a Mythic Ilevel weapon if it was a weapon only for example, but something around Heroic ilevel at least for doing that content. And if you do it solo you get a specific achievement and title like Horrific Visions.

Don’t keep tying the good storylines that plug in story holes into the covenants. Put those storys fully into the world from now on. I think you’re doing this anyway in 9.1, but honestly it sucks having to do the covenant storylines and see story that could have been included in the zone.

Do a better job of making your zones feel full of life, consequence, and various interrelated storylines. You did a good job in Drustvar in BfA of making that a creepy and interesting zone with different storys, but even that could have been improved even more. Sometimes it feels as though these zones are just plopped together and have content just thrown into them with not as much love to detail and the rpg aspect as they could have. If anything I’d like to see these zones change as we progress in the shadowlands storyline even if you have to use phasing on a grand scale to do so. I believe you have it in you to tell a truly amazing award winning story but it’s all in how you do it. Ravencrest just wasn’t nearly as good or fun as it could have been for example. The castles looked nice though at least, but the content seemed detached and uninspired. I saw the content and played through it but wasn’t pulled into the story at all really as it felt kinda all over the place. I didn’t read much quest text and most I think don’t really bother as well so perhaps that is partly why.

I could probably go on but those are my rough thoughts on the matter.

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82

It’s $20 a month where I’m at - but that’s not the point. The point is if I am buying a burger regularly from XYZ food joint and they change it on me and it no longer tastes good, I will complain and unless they change it, won’t buy their food. In no way am I obligated to feel sorry for the food chain and continue to purchase burgers I hate eating because devs “tried hard”. If my 100% beef patty is half saw dust now, I’ll call them out on it. It’s the principle.

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83

Except its not mid expac, its end of expac:
https://www.wowhead.com/news=321105/ion-hazzikostas-on-soloing-old-raids-legion-raids-easily-soloable-by-the-end-of-
“at the end of an expansion, you will be able to solo the content two expansions ago fairly easily.”

It still doesn’t make it less of a BS move to make players weaker than before by making soloing content STRONGER, thats a betrayal of RPG/MMO logic. Whats even the POINT OF LEVELING if you become a wimp next expac like nothing?

Please, heirlooms were reduced into pure trash by making them worse than greens/blues at many points and removing any reason to wear them(the new “bonuses” are so trash they are not worth use in the sighliest). There is a reason people call them Trashlooms now.

Threads of Fate is only good if you spamm dungeons with a pre-made group because otherwise its slower than regular questing.

You forget that each of my alts needs to grind anima, re-grind maw perks, do Torghast for soul ash, go through the agonizingly slow gearing. WQs are also a significant downgrade from earlier expacs by being longer, having hidden steps and taking away the single “kill 1 enemy” WQs. And thats not getting into the gear and io/pvp rating barrier that alts needs to get into.

As a expac that did better alt catch-up, MoP starting at 5.1 already did, so did BFA with the AK ranks to allow you to speed up with azerite ranks and stuff(The azerite armor issue was a different real and it was a pain even on mains because of lack of proper way to get the pieces you needed, and the ridiculous grind needed early on which was toned down by 8.2). I can give more examples as well.

Problem is that M+ ilvl is now lower than heroic and valor upgrades doesnt lets you get more than ilvl 220 gear, which makes it worthless as people who have been doing M+ and some degree of raiding wont be able to find true upgrades there. The unrewarding part is the fact that you get less items than BFA, which wouldn’t be so bad if you didn’t had big odds of getting duplicate gear(running M+ and getting helms or cloaks nonstop is not fun or particulary encouraging). To say nothing of the fact the extra choices of weekly vault can give duplicates or downgrades and make your M+ done previous week pointless.

Raid bosses this expac are less complex than dungeons as a whole, while dungeons give lower rewards than pvp or raids in terms of gear and stuff, which feels wrong. I’m not asking to give us easy dungeons, but i don’t like overdesign like a trash pack where you need 4 different interrupts, constantly kiting, stunning a mob on a channel and more. It forces specific comps and makes a lot of specs to be ridiculously undesirable as a result. Also lets not start with tyrannical in SD, where already beefy and hard hitting bosses with several mechanics becomes roadblocks while trash remains as much of a pain in the rear as ever(There is a very reason there is certain trick with priests you can perform in SD that helps you alleviate some trash because its otherwise miserable, and if you don’t run a specific comp, you are essentially shafted).

Compare SD to literally any other dungeon and its obvious that SD is the worst of the bunch, only ToP on tyrannical weeks comes close, with the difficult discrepacy being appalling, and its pretentious because it doesn’t give it merit, it makes you not want to run that place ever again because its not fun at all. I do enjoy some SL dungeons but SD ranks as the worst dungeon designed ever, mixing the worst of King’s rest and Seat of triumvirate.

Have you played a damn blood dk this expac in M+?!?!? Poor aggro generation compared to other tanks, lack of kiting tools compared to other tanks and overall high damage intake. You can’t be telling me with a straight face that i can facetank stuff at 14/15 and not die, or have you done HoA +15 where the bears and several crowded trash pulls can make short work of you unless you kite them? Also how the hell do you explain the fact that DH Veng is overpowered as hell for tanking and makes every other tank spec look like a joke?

Yes, no expac is perfect with tank balancing and the likes, but this one takes the cake as the worst of the bunch so far:
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-sl-1/all/world/leaderboards/0#content
At least 70% of tanks( Higher than 13 keys counted) are DHs, how can you defend that? And how can you tell me (i main a blood dk), that i can facetank 14/15s trash when i’ve done that and its painfully clear i die a lot if i try that tactic?

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The gear isn’t good 5 level lower it’s garbage just vendor trash. A month ago not many weeks ago give me a break.

No longer cutscene true because your main already did it except for the intro coming in sl,repeats agh.

And no i’m not talking about gold for gear geesh.Mythic do you think everyyone has 355 gear coming into sl if so there wouldn’t be evidence of bodies in the introduction in the maw ,right.

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If there were ever a moment in wow where classes felt complete and fleshed out, i wish to know, bc it seems every expansion ever, since vanilla that’s not really an expansion, people have had complains with their class design, so no, those were never fully complete, and never have been. It’s hard to say as we don’t have the forum archives of 15 years ago, but you can see at least, on classic forums and videos about classes just how incomplete it was, with people knowing the S tiers from the D troll picks that were useless in content. Ret pala in classic? come on, don’t joke, frost mage rotation? frostbolt and frostbolt and frostbolt and frostbolt. People accepted their classes and tried to look for ways to get the most out of them as there were no more powers to patch up, hoping to get a fix in the next patch or expansion. With borrowed powers, you get exactly that: essences are a great reference, making classes that were meh into powerhouses and patching lacking points, like magic resist or healing for a prot warrior. Azerite armor sucked bc most fo the best simming options were boring passives, more haste, more mastery, resounding protection and 3 copies of the same haste boost. Few had actually game changing traits like arms warrior and holy paladin, they saw their mistake and made essences. When you lose a tier set, it sucks major a$$ bc you find yourself with the dilemma, is it better to get a higher ilvl piece and break my tier set? no, i better retain the lower piece until i get more pieces to justify the change, that is horrible, and we had that on 8.0 with the “you need more neck level to unlock this traits” that made lower ilvl gear better than higher simply bc of what traits it had available.
you had a patch with them, so you felt frustrated when the new tier set wasn’t as powerful as the one before, like saying “back then we had essences and corruptions, that were much more impactful than covenant abilities”.

Tier sets were tied to random drops, so as much a reward as any loot piece, but unlike borrowed powers, you didn’t have to do the same content to complete the tier set, like doing dragon soul in all difficulties to get the tier set complete; borrowed powers tend to be upgraded by doing all sorts of content, heart had AP gains everywhere, with quests tied to the upgrades or currencies like mana pearls, that you could control and know how much you gain per session, instead of lottery, that lottery were corruptions and people hated that, so they made you able to purchase the corruption towards the end… people hating corruptions for being random but liking random drops of tier sets, when some tier sets like dragonsoul were so overwhelmingly powerful they made LFR unfair, easy content and getting the same powers and high end content.

And now, we don’t have an AP system, you can have 0 anima and be just as powerful as someone with 10000 anima, they just have cosmetic or more covenant upgrades that don’t mean sht. People minmaxing the game isn’t exactly blizz fault, you can do with any covenant, but people rejecting you from groups for that isn’t Blizz doing, but the elitist thinking only 1 option is viable, and how dare you to run Meteor in raid, you dumb fire mage! begone… again, players doing minmax

9.1 will have gear with higher rewards, but in-raid, so players “don’t feel forced to” play raid if they don’t like. Right now, the game is very open to choose your path of upgrade, no longer you need to do raid to get best content, you can do so in PvP or Mythic+, but the latter at reduced rate since, unlike PvP, dungeons don’t change from match to match, and can be minmaxed efficiently, as seen in MDI games, completing high keys (way past the maximum for ilvl, +15) in the most efficient way possible. It’s a fight between players always min maxing whats best to do, and blizz trying to appeal to everyone, the battle has been going on since forever, we’ll see how it goes

The cosmetic side… huh… transmog? you can transmog your tier set gear from raids before, it’s not like having a power makes the gear look different. you can use the tusk shoulder from mythic BoD without the azerite powers it came with, or change aze powers for tier sets, same thing when it comes to appearance

Fun rewards are subjective, for me, it was fun to upgrade my Crucible of Flame to rank 3 since having to charges allowed for some serious burst, and that was a borrowed power that I could complete without having to rely on people queueing for a raid and doing well. i MUCH rather have powers i can work on my own for, than relying on random drops and completion of sets to get benefits. Covenant armor has tier set like bonuses, that aren’t so bad. Necro 5piece bonus is 100 intellect buff while the shield holds, which is more than your flask, and the shield can hold for a lot if you’re a class that gains another shield like warlock, 8pice a reduction and crit buff.

gonna answer more soon, got stuff to do :bomb:

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I mean doesn’t really explain why nerf non OP classes tho? Just buff the class the devs play and leave others alone.

87

That is a whole lot of writing just to say nothing. Holy hell, long winded and no substance.

3 Likes
88

More than likely it was per-written and now his off to write more long drawn paragraphs.

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That’s what opinions mostly are, except i back up mine with data. I have pointed facts a lot of the time, but if you wish to nitpick and say it’s nothing, go for it.

more likely you’re wrong, all are written at the moment I check the forums, I don’t have anything pre set, like right now, I finished a dungeon and came to check, now writing these replies. But at this point, i won’t do more, not bc i don’t like, but blizz restricted some posts for “trolling”, some people do believe i’m somehow trolling here, asking what you like about the game, what you want, is trolling apparently.

I know it wasn’t an autmatic action, someone did report for trolling, and someone here also mentioned trolling, “more than likely it was that person”.

So well, guess you can continue posting stuff here saying im 100% wrong but giving no reasons as to why, or somewhow taking my data as “wrong” but “they know better” Sure sure, do as you please. This ain’t my job, and it’s rapidly becoming pointless and dull as nothing new seems to be coming, feels like playing Classic XD peace out, I’m out, until next time

planning on making a mega post, a “Help us Help you” for each spec, where I won’t say sht and let others put what they already do in separate posts, but all compiled into one thread, unifying , hopefully, discord niche servers and players alike in the format blizz can see, their forums. Forfeit endeavor, but I’ve got time, and sounds fun, just waiting for people to report it for trolling and go “lol no 2400io shut up noob, you can’t speak if you don’t have mythic clear by now scrub” or something on that line, maybe the rules I’ll set for the post will make that unlikely

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So you’re saying I’m talking nonsense ,oh great going there bud. You calling me a troll. God button on.

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MoP was about the most complete classes had ever felt to me, right before WoW started going heavy handed on the pruning. Other people would likely say either BC or WotLK. Of course vanilla classes were incomplete, Blizz had no idea what they were doing then. The talent system was literally an afterthought because they realized players should probably get something on every level, hence why most talents were nominal % increases and certain specs were outright broken, because the talent system was rushed.

Yes, azerite armor sucked because classes were poorly designed at the time, especially compared to pre legion expansions, and the loss of artifact weapons proved just how broken classes were on a fundamental level. And they tried to fill that hole with… RNG stat procs which punished you for getting higher ilvl gear because you had to grind more ap to unlock them. Essences were better but BFA did a great job at highlighting how devestatingly wrong things can go when they try to reinvent the wheel with so many of these contrived systems.

Replacing tier sets weren’t nearly as devestating as losing borrowed powers. I would take splitting up a 2 piece tier bonus over losing the ability for my Tyrant to generate 5 soul shards ANY DAY. That was an EXTREMELY big concern for demo locks for a very long time in beta and was threatening to kill the spec more than Shadowlands has already. Also look at Havoc DH. Their class got a little bit of changing but main reason why they aren’t performing great right now? Because BFA borrowed power was carrying them hard. How about Shadowlands? You think Warriors are going to like losing Condemn at the end of this expansion? Or how about Druids with Convoke? Or hunters with Wild Spirits? These covenant powers are doing a LOT for them right now and when they lose them their classes are going to be severely broken unless they get some serious help. These hit WAY harder than set bonuses ever did.

And sure, anima is cosmetic, but did you like the Renown time gating your soulbinds? Do you like needing to grind Torghast for your legendaries? How about Stygia to upgrade your conduits randomly? Shadowlands is less guilty of the grind but it’s still not innocent either. Also, why do these abilities have to come from outside class design anyway? Blizz could easily have introduced them as a new talent row baked into your class and suddenly there’d be no reason for the timegating and grinding I mentioned above. They also aren’t rewarding you for doing content. They’re just put there as part of yet another contrived system.

And yes, transmog. People like getting new sets to collect. You cannot tell me that the BFA sets were anywhere near as good as previous expansions. The Uldir appearances in particular were amongst the most generic armor sets I’ve ever seen. Removing tier sets lost a LOT of potential in raid armor designs.

Its also ironic to me that you hate on tier sets yet say you like the covenant set, since that’s a set you’ll be quickly replacing the moment you start raiding or do high M+ keys. If you like that, then why are you so opposed to having tier sets with bonuses that are tailor made to your spec?

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92

Stuff that they’ll never do.

Raiding: Only 1 version of the raid. Some bosses have optional “hard modes” like Ulduar for the difficulty nerds. Your reward is that you can farm more drops for longer, you’ll have better gear by the end of the tier. Your reward isn’t clearing the raid for an achievement like it is currently.

Dungeons: 1 difficulty mode, keys remain.

PvP: Honor vendors that aren’t completely terrible. Arenas.

Ilvl’s should be in 3 tiers - .5 Dungeon sets, M+/PVP sets, and Raid sets. Catchup half-tiers like ZG should be at the M+/PvP level. And yes, I mean TIER SETS.

Complete overhaul of professions. Useful items should come from them (At the M+/PVP ilvl). Farming resources should be beneficial. You should be deciding whether or not to sell mats, or to save them for crafting an expensive item.

Tokens gone from the game.

WQ’s gone.

Flying unlocked at max level for gold.

Complete overhaul of many classes and specs in the game.

No rental powers.

Player/guild housing

Like I said - Stuff they’re probably unable to do.

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93

dude… do you even read? I said

check the chat, use control F, di replied to you for the initial part of pre written message, the rest is not a reply to you, but a general message, i can’t type 2 messages back to back, remember? i have to wait until someone else replies, don’t take things personally and learn to read. Anyway, bye

94

The issue with borrowed power versus expanding on classes is that the power is taken from you like artifact weapons. It’s a power see-saw. Instead of Azerite or legendaries they could add an extra talent row or an extra talent column (making the choice between 4 talents instead of three. This would be much easier to balance and easier to maintain between expansions.

And this game is much more complicated than merely gathering anima.

You have:

  1. Getting gear to drop, no mean feat
  2. Farming sockets
  3. Legendaries which require patterns and farming soul ash. Also tons of gold
  4. Conduits
  5. Soulbinds
  6. Covenants and renown if you switch

And that just power progression and not cosmetic stuff.

It used to be gear…that’s it. And it worked.

What also sucks is how each patch is a reset in power progression. It used to reset each expac.

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They don’t quit, only the one that gave their gold would have a chance to actually quit. These people are addicted, and Blizzard knew it, they hold the real number, see how fast M+ valor was announced? That’s because Blizz know the real number.

Just don’t take forum post way too serious man, 99% of them are troll, the other 1% is vocal minority.

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I prefer to take the LatinAmerica and Youtube community as guidelines, bc those people actually enjoy the game. When I see the facebook posts of the latin america wow portion, they fkin love it, they don’t speak Doomsayer language all day “oh the game is dead oh Blizz is the worst” I see that only in the US forums.

The data most people have are from Western since Asia (mostly china) is SUPER restrictive with their real numbers, and blizz now panders so much to China they know thats a big market, and you can see top players, are a lot of asians. Those must be half the playerbase, and those numbers are never taken into account, but these doomsayers keep babbling the end when the game is 15 years old, and doomsayer cries rattled since cataclysm, 2010

97

so heres the thing. On one hand I hate when tv shows or games take too much feedback. They change too much and we lose the flow of the original idea for the sake of bringing in more players/audience.

On the other hand, feedback can be useful so you know why people are leaving or disinterested, and maybe you can follow the artistic flow towards a gate that will include a higher % audience.

I purposely dont give out comments like “Change XYZ!” because sometimes authors/writers/developers are moving in a way I will utimately enjoy, I just cant see it from my vantage point. Some books I will stick around because I love the writer and I give them the benefit of the doubt. But once their series is done, Im still left sitting there thinking, well that wasnt satisfying at all.
I to this point, havent felt that with wow. Each expac as had a beginning and an end I was ok with. Maybe I would have done something different but I want to experience someone else’s creation.

However, as feedback, I want whoever is designing this to know that they need to give people more avenues of advancement. I dont want world quests giving out valor. But why cant heroics? Give heroics a form of valor to upgrade us to 205 or 210. Then we can use the KSM 5-10 m+ to get us to 210-215. then 10-15 m+ can get us to 215-225.

The reason I say this, is because let people get their foot in the door in heroics. Get them gear so m-5 can be obsolete gear wise. Its for the experience to see mythics arent that bad. Then they can form groups and guilds and realize they can do this, and they can advance at their own speed.

I just think giving us valor from WQs is feeding into some peoples idea that everyone wants something for nothing.

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98

I’d just love instanced content that isn’t timed by a literal timer or a boss enrage. I want to relax when I play this game. If I wanted stress I’d play a multiplayer FPS or something.

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99

No it’s not… check how you were before borrowed powers, so WoD. Were you massively strong? No, right? you were not, you had to get trinkets to be OP and rely on cooldowns, but the total ability count, spells in your book (meaningul spells) were not that many, basically the same as now, arguibly less since we get most things baked to baseline and got forgotten spells plus the new ones. If you remove all covenants now, you still have perfectly capable classes. As a DK, I very rarely remember slapping hands, I can just go with what I have, same with shaman, primordial wave helps but, it’s not like I could not operate without it. Sometimes I forget to use it, and do just fine.

Okay, you always have to do that, nothing new

you don’t, you 100% don’t need to. You can complete all content without worrying about sockets, leech and enchants, it’s entirely possible. A boss isn’t going to survive bc you had 10 more haste on an item, if you win by that margin, then you were not doing well overall, you have to win with most people alive and potential to keep going more seconds, not barely scratching teeth

Now you can make them, no longer a random drop, and the legendary powers are now much weaker compared to old leggos, so you don’t feel as punished if you miss one, plus, you can get it from rank 1. Tons of gold? don’t make me laugh, gold hasn’t been an issue at all, you can but a rank 4 with what, 120k gold? is that a lot? I entered on Shadowlands, no previous gold from any expansion, and I bought all my legendaries from the AH for the price they were on, i got a rank 4 legs for my Hpala for 120k gold and still had left to buy a token. Gold is not a concern, if it is for you… weird, you are doing something wrong. And no, they don’t require patterns, that was before, you needed long a$$ quest chains and drops to get your legendary, and the patterna nd reagents, now only basic gathering things you cna buy from boomkin bots in AH or get yourself with some time,soul ash that its obtainable in under 2 hours for the rest of the week with a party and only 1 week worth to get 1 leggo. we are at the 15th week or so, you could have gotten 17550 soul ash by now (8k is the cap but, you can craft the rank of each part to avoid clipping ash). Plus, you can craft rank 1 and only upgrade it, you don’t have to fully invest for a new piece, just add the extra and the new item that can be bought for gold. It has never been easier

God forbid, those are so hard to obtain… you get them from callings, world quests and now, also raid bosses, world bosses and dungeons dude, you can 100% passively get them by just playing normal content, and the lowest rank gives most of the effect. Ringing Clarity rank 1 (145) gives 40% chance already and ilv 184, 52%, only 12% more, it’s not crucial and super easy to obtain

you literally get those by just playing, that’s all, just play and bam, you get renown, you get soulbinds, it takes nothing.

If you switch, then yes, but you can check forums, it takes a week to catch up renown, then if you switch back, you’ll have the renown of before. But yes they could make it easier, but it’s not something hard, it’s not complicated, it’s the bare minimum. It is an MMORPG, not a mobile game, it’s supposed to have depth and things to do, not just 3 things: stats - gear - rotation.

cosmetic is cosmetic, bare with me, Mage Tower was liked, purely cosmetic, and challenging. Cosmetics are out of the question, you can do them or not, it’s 100% optional

sorry you want such a simple game, it’s somewhat depressing… do you like mobile games? it looks like you prefer simple stuff like “roll dice, do stufF”. you sound like the people that think Gen1 was best gen, with just moves and stats, no abilities, no items, no party coordination or buffs, no switch moves, few typings, no terrain, no special moves…

Each patch adds to the previous, not resets. Your azerite traits were mostly the same from 8.0 to 8.3, you got higher ilvl but the same powers in a nutshell, essences came and lasted all the expansion
your artifact power from the start remained the same all throughout the expansion
And if you want to lie to yourself, tier sets also last a patch only, but somewhow people were okay with that. Tier sets were massively impactful, forced raid grind and people liked, now they dislike having options like PvP, raid or M+, they just want 1 universal way of stale content to do… are you a classic player?

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I can tell by your needlessly snarky tone that you don’t want to discuss. You want to “win”. Read what steelmanning aka the principle of charity is over your strawmanning of my points.

Just because I want to the game to be simpler and easier to balance since Blizz has such a hard time with balance, doesn’t mean I want a mobile game. That’s just a dumb, hyperbolic statement

Until you want to act less like an argumentative child I’ll take my discussion elsewhere. Enjoy yelling at no one. Good day.

2 Likes