This is a huge post that basically misses:
“Complaining about an aspect of the game doesn’t mean you hate 100% of the game”
I like liquid cooling my PC’s, know what I don’t like, maintenance and the extra steps necessary to make sure my lines don’t leak, do I now hate liquid cooling simply because I don’t like those aspects or am I allowed to not like parts of something and love others?
I love them… it keeps the game going for me when I want to play.
You seem to use a whole bunch of words to say absolutely nothing as well not understanding many of the post you are replying to. It’s like you are being intentionally obtuse to “win” an argument you started with made up claims as to what the player base is and is not doing/saying. That’s trolling. You’re just a forum troll.
Bliz doesn’t need your molly coddling OP.
I don’t miss that, i have said many times how there are helpful people, but also, lots of hateful people that flood the server with more doomsayer posts than happy posts, and to call the game total trash/ garbage or shlt, well, that’s mostly hating close to 100% of it , right? unless it’s garbage by missing 1-2 things, then it wouldn’t make sense.
About the liquid cooling, the equivalent here would be going to the PC page and flooding their opinion box with 1/10 reviews bc “your computers are trash, there are so many steps I don’t feel like doing, i won’t buy from you again” or the classic “i unsubbed/quit this game bc there wont be more customization, dead game, nothing to do”
Later on the post, I mention how wow PB is also one of the most passionate about their game, and that passion can go for good or bad, for fun and ugly, it is to be loved and hated 
Ah really? Could you quote me, please? It was midnight when I replied to most, I might have missed some, nobody’s perfect, shiny boi. If you’re eager to make me improve, then help and quote my mistakes or misunderstandings, please.
But there is nothing to win here, what’s the endgoal of this? This isn’t a “change my mind” post, it’s more of a “tell what you like and I give an opinion about it”. If you had actually read the whole thing, you’ll see it’s mostly me trying to come up with things about what people like or dislike, what I know i can reply, and when something is a valid point of argument, i say valid point and move forward, whenever someone replies, I do so as well until the topic is concluded, only one person has had major issues with this dialogue and well, it wasn’t very informative as well, I tried asking for more in depth explanation to what he meant and got nothing, and a rude approach to it, so I cut it short. Again, i’m doing this for fun, if it ain’t fun, why bother? I’m not a blizz dev or comm manager, i don’t get paid for doing this, If something is not fun here, there is no reason to continue.
But about the “made up claims”, I’ll hold you on that point, bc all of what I say is backed up. Check bellular videos, or Maxim videos, or the posts here, you’ll the the halo of Doomsayers saying the things I said, how people hated LFR, LFG, convenience, etc, I dont’ pull stuff out of the ring. Players wanting WoD PvP and also, not wanting, players asking for valor then saying it’s useless, players saying Mythic+ is good addition in legion then preferring having none of that as they like classic, players saying the content is stale and having nothing to do when it’s objectively obvious there are more things to do now than before, as every subsequent expansion only adds to the previous game, WoW now weights over 80gb, it was considerably smaller before in data size, filling the gaps with grinds and repeated work
And I don’t need your molly replying Rhay, but here you are: guess we aren’t so different, huh?
Not good enough, and the system is still so rickety that it requires a system-wide outage every week to maintain.
Aren’t we talking about the combat status problems? The weekly reset also serves to clean up data caches, restart weekly locked caps, apply fixes and somewhat medium changes like the anima increase, and rarely does it last more than a couple minutes, it says an hour, but at around 14 min after the reset, you can log in again.
I can’t talk much on that as for me at least, it has worked out perfectly*, the occasions it worked out well over the mistakes is barely noticeable, like a car taking a bit more to start one day over a month of normal startups.
Lets see:
1_ Don’t lie to your playerbase and change how legacy scaling works after several expansions.
https://twitter.com/WatcherDev/status/1298294193773633537
First, we got told we could still solo what was doable on 8.3 after prepatch landed. Since 9.0 my alt toons still can’t solo what they were soloing before just fine on 8.3 without corruption. Then they said it was “working as intended” and we should be able to solo all of legion on 9.3, which is not only a dishonest and blatant lie over what you said to your playerbase before, but its a massive kick in the face to people who enjoys soloing old content and they suddenly make soloing worse this expac for no good reason other than spite(or make players stay subbed longer).
2_Better communication. Ignoring feedback, treating your internal testers like crap and being silent on important topics means you don’t respect the playerbase at all, making the “toxic” behavior a lot more justified and deserved(sure, death threaths and the likes are not right but being angry for the devs acting like douchebags is not wrong at all).
3_ Make SL more alt-friendly. Its currently one of the least alt-friendly expacs i’ve played(And i’ve played for a very long time).
4_ Be less ridiculous with rewards and requisites. On one side you need 1.6M anima to be able to purchase all the armor cosmetics you want and a lot more than that if you want the other cosmetics as well(mounts, toys, etc). On other side M+ feels unrewarding for the effort when you can get boosted via pvp to 2.1k and get 226 gear and 233 weapons, while valor upgrades will only go up to 220 on 9.0.5, again failing to actually do anything meaningful unless you are a returning player and want to push past 15s, and if you are already pushing 15s the valor upgrades won’t do crap as you are unlikely to find many upgrades to begin on 220 items, while hitting 2.1k is easy via boosting or playing the right specs of the meta and getting 226 gear.
5_ Back off with overdesigning stuff. Some dungeons feels like a chore to do like SD because it feels ridiculously overcomplex and pretentious, and lets not start with tank kiting because you make trash on M+ 14 and onwards hits harder than mythic raid bosses for no good reason.
Blame the customers, always a fool proof method for success. I suppose all of your sycophantic ranting might have merit if it were not for the fact we pay for this game. This isn’t some charity show. So all of your ridiculous ranting falls on deaf ears - this isn’t a free meal - we paid for it.
Some of the features they touted before launch don’t exist in the way we were led to believe (ie Torghast). Also, this isn’t couples counselling, people aren’t happy with a product, you’re gonna tell them they’re wrong to feel that way? What planet are you from again?
Wake up dude.
Op,I bought the game in hope that it would be an entertainment not a second ,in my case a job. Though some of it is fun to funny most isn’t. With 16 alts this has become a chore and not relaxing (except the fishing and herbalism,my prospective), it’s repetitive isn’t for everyone and quite boring after the second toon and almost mind-bottling doing more.
I typically don’t throw around wild ideas but it really seems like this has to be part of the reasoning. I still don’t get how they buffed fire mage one of the best specs in everything and then nerf MM hunter who was doing decent and now will be middle of the pack at best…
Yes, scaling is an issue that hasn’t been fully addressed yet, and you could do things in 8.2 that you can’t in 9.0. I did Nighthold mythic last week in a couple of minutes, bosses doing no damage, just blasting them in seconds, so… I don’t think you could do that in BFA? Sure wrathion died in less than a minute with 20 fire mages but that was, again, 20 fire mages with max ilvl and corruptions, right now as a ilvl170, you can do legion content easily, wod as well and below that, i mean, wod is legacy now, so the rest are equally trivial. In blizzcon qna they said how their goal was to make to by mid expansion, you can blast through the toughest content of 2 expansions ago, so in 9.1, doing all 7.3.5 like it’s nothing.
repeated point, yes, valid, they are just using AI at this point, should not be like it is now.
What? what expansion is more alt friendly? please, bc now we have heirloom, account wide mounts, LFG, LFR, threads of fate, world quests, Mythic+ at any ilvl on 60 to get carried, renown catch up, no mandatory grind and free gear from covenant campaign that’s above heroic dungeon level. What xpa is more alt friendly & still has many endgame components?
Anima will last the entire expansion, cosmetics are… .cosmetics, you get them as a dump when you don’t have anything else to spend on, like the brutosaur mount that costed 5M. The whole 9.0 is about the draught, that’s why there’s few anima, but it will increase, just like any other currency ever, and they have already said we’ll get more anima as the xpa goes along, so those cosmectic options will also become trivial to purchase. M+ feeling unrewarding is weird to me. It was my understanding that your party is guaranteed to get 1 piece of loot, 2 if you complete the key on time, now you get 2 always, one lower if you didn’t complete, which makes sense, you gotta reward good play on time. 2 pieces per group of 5? and ilvl goes up to like, +15, past that, it’s just personal challenge. What’s the ilvl required to do a m15? some will say 205, others call that a noob perspective, that they can with 200, others 210, answeres may vary, but the difference is very small when it comes to m12-m14, only m15 giving above 207. And the great vault giving then mythic level gear. for that. They made so you can’t get past 210 bc that would render Heroic Raid useless, as that’s 213 and M+ is infinite, unlike raid. The age old problem of people wanting to get to max as soon as possible, then complain there is nothing to do. getting to 226 within a month or 2, then saying “what now?” . You want them to make M+ the preferred method again? Valor is there to upgrade to 220, still below mythic raiding since you can farm valor doing much easier content, they could make it so you get to 223 with valor and remove the on-hand cap of 1500 to just let you get up to the max, 5000. Possibly a change they’ll make as the patch goes on, this xpa things have changed a lot since release, the current notes are not set in stone, things can change and have changed.
Dungeons now are dungeons instead of linear caves like before. remember wailing caverns? mechanics were… nothing, just a cave with mobs to kill and continue, that’s a dungeon crawler. I feel that’s a big “you” problem. If you call the new dungeons “ridiculously overcomplex” then wow… i’m surprised you consider that so complex, pretentious, so you want more toned down, dungeons, small caves with no dialogue and big things, no theater of pain bc it’s pretentious to have all the people yelling and portals, huh, such a booze, i just want to walk, kill shñt and move on… no, can’t take that, you problem all the way. Tank kiting tho, you can do up to 15 without much kiting, and we have gone over that again, 15 is the max you need to do to get loot, past that, it’s personal challenge. It should be addresse tho, with a buff to tanks when facing enemies in 5 yards or smt, so tanks that jus kite and take little to no damage don’t get punished, but those that physically can’t bc of their kit are rewarded for their playstyle.
Customer is always right is an incredibly dumb way to take services as well. Customer knows best ain’t the only way to go, and we are not perfect, pigeons eating royal food, we can also be douches and complain about things we liked in the past and vice versa. Like how some players now protest against flying while many also loved the idea of flying when it was added. Or those saying the game community is not what it used to, like it’s blizz fault, when all the community options still exist in the game but people just don’t want to use them since they have more convenient, effective ways to do so. Torghast did change, but you were shown that on release, you were shown how it had changed before buying, and if you pre bought well, then yes, that can be a problem. However, talking about torghast again, it was shown as a fun, infinite thing, but now people complain it takes too long, but back then it was infinite… what do they want, quick and easy, long and hard? Twisting is long asf but people also dislike it, for 1) having no rewards aside frum cosmetic and dumb stuff, and having much less than Island expeditions, that were random as opposed to guaranteed Twisting stuff, 2) taking too long for a mandatory thing like the corridor creeper mount, that they backed away as the new patch adds mounting in the maw like in every other zone.
Yeah you pay, just like you pay for online on console or a newspaper subcription, but unlike those, you can pay that subscription with the content you’re giving, like if you could renew your subscription to a newspaper by sending them cutouts from their pages, or by playing X amount of hours online, now with tokens (which is what I do, i haven’t paid in months thanks to that). Oh but tokens are also hated, damn…
my “ridiculous rantings” my RANTINGS? what rantings? if I’m the one that actually likes the game and doesn’t shlt on it endlessly, shouldn’t it be the other way around? For me, it is a free meal, bc I enjoy playing it, and by doing so, i get more time to keep playing, i don’t feel forced to play, i can stay days without playing, and make enough gold passively to continue getting tokens… you might be bad at that then, but it is entirely possible .-.
You bought the game knowing what the game was like, it didn’t come in a lootbox or as a “surprise”, only torghast that kinda changed close to the release day, past that, you saw what the raid was like, the daily activities, classes, covenants… you knew what you were going to do. When you saw the game, what did you say? “Great, I’m going to play this, first i’ll complete the storyline, then do some dungeons and raid with my guild” but that’s what you have been doing, right? and you knew how the bosses were from beta videos, how dungeons were, how the player progression went down and all the covenant campaign before it hit live server. I still don’t understand people buying a game without knowing what it is, when you buy a FIFA, you know you’ll be playing a soccer game, and you can see how that game will play out, so once you do it… isn’t that what you looked for?
people say it’s a chore, like they are forced to play, just let it be there for time, until it sparks your interest again, or doesn’t and move on. It’s not a job you have to go, it’s a game! Like I said, I quit playing LoL and I don’t feel like doing so anymore, I knew what the game was like and saw it was not for me, then I stopped… you can do the same. All MMOs have repetitive content, all games ever made have repetitive content, no game is infinite, even minecraft has repetitive content, you start, gather wood, make worktable, gather stone, gather steel, look for diamons, make a house, etc. It has a lot of things to do but, in the end, you can see gameplays of the base game and most are the same: gather, make, gather more, make. You might be at a point where video games are not appealing anymore, and prefer the unpredictability of social interaction, which is good, most adults do so, be free to do that instead.
Ahm,not really,I didn’t do the ptr so there’s that so i came in blind to what was presented as did others because they didn’t want to spoil the surprise a game should have on the positive side but playing through it just showed nothing has changed since ,BFA they did the same thing over again.
except you don’t need to do all the zones over and over since you get ToF on your alts, and that gear no longer titanforges for random krap, and we’ll have valor to upgrade mythic gear that we didnt have in BFA, or PvP actually useful for gearing, or forced grinds like AP, azerite power, anima power, not needed anymore, or free good alt gear like covenant armor unlike… whatever trash throwed at you while leveling
But yes the game is the same I guess… and well, your expectations weren’t met, sorry for that, it’s part of life, sometimes you make your own ideas and don’t get what you expected, that’s with most movies too, not just a wow thing, happens everywhere
I’d like the game to expand on classes more than anything else. No borrowed power if possible other than gear. Even the fantastic encounter design they do isn’t worth much if the class sucks that you are experiencing it in. It’s like having a great road and great countryside whilst driving a crappy vehicle.
Less complicated systems if we have to have them. I want my class to be intricate and complicated (at times) but want the game to remain a RPG. I wish the game difficulty came more from class mechanics than encounter mechanics. More keybinds and less DDR, one shot boss nonsense.
Paladin: Would love to have old spells added. Like Auras.
Blizz: Okay! We’ll remove crusader aura as a passive and put it on the GCD as an aura. We’ll then remove Blessing of Wisdom and Might and give you Devotion aura that is also on the GCD.
Paladin: Wait… wha?
Blizz: Say another word and we’ll remove those wheels off your chair!
That there is wrong,Tof doesn’t make it easier it makes it harder to follow the quests to level you don’t have the same quest line as you had before. And this power progression only came easier NOW not then when I started my alt runs. Also,the gear we had in bfa leveling is better then this garbage ,5levels below the gear you started in sl. Blizz knew it was wrong and you know it.
You’re just an apologist for what’s being widely received as a lacklustre product. You think people are going to suddenly think we should feel sorry for the multi-billion dollar company and keep our dissatisfaction in check and quietly hand over our money. To me that is the definition of being ridiculous.
When you say expand on classes, you mean adding/changing classes spells as the expansion goes through? Bc that’s … kinda what borrowed powers offer. Previous expas gave you abilities and that’s it, you had that same kit all the expansion, with borrowed powers, you actually get new spells that can work as patches to your spec. This expansion made many classes have baseline spells, so technically they did expand, as things added outweight things removed from before.
Class tuning is always going on, frost mage is a good example, from beta being gods, to live being krap to now middle row, or fury warriors now better than arms in pve as the patch went along, things change, no longer set in stone until the next big patch.
Less complicated systems, but what complicated system? gathering anima and… that’s it? valor, playing and getting a currency to then upgrade, or just stockpile who cares? Infused rubies, i have 100 and don’t give a sht about what you can do with those, it’s just an addition that doesn’t affect or is needed, hence I don’t have to know about it to play effectively.
Just like how you ask for your class to be complex, many argue against it, against having many buttons and macros to “perform well”. Sure it’s boring to have a fire mage style spec with 3 buttons as rotation, but try changing that like with phoenix flames and they complain hard.
The game diff comes from mechanics that classes can solve. How to avoid insta dead or soaking mechanics? get one with self ress or immunity, how to quickly move around to get a mecanic done? get a druid with stampeding roar or a warlock portal, how to cheat a n insta dead? mage, rogue, DK, soulstone, etc. You still need class diversity to do stuff, unless you’re so geared you can skip that like raids with 20 bears. If you want more keys, try playing elemental shaman, it’s a roller coaster. One shots are a thing of this raid, true, but have been nerfed over, and over, and over, and most than not, encourage player responsability. No more is the “tank tanks and DPS just do damage”, now you gotta…do stuff.
crusader aura is for non combat, who cares if its on the GCD ._. unless you want 1.3 seconds faster 20% mount speed that can be solved by jumping and momentum. Blessings being removed was weird, maybe they thought a class with so amny utility options didn’t need more? Who knows, I’m not a pala fanboy, but I feel you always need palas, like mages and locks. even without those, you’re still pretty much needed for content. On that regard hunters should feel bad having close to nothing to bring besides damage (now) and traps, that are just CC that take longer to activate and the 3rd lust option if they even have a pet.
No, it makes it easier, you get world quest gear rewards at the start, that allow for dungeons that have guaranteed drops and big XP chunks, no longer having to eat up dialogues, cutscenes and walking here and there for 7k xp rewards, as ToF quests give more XP with warmode for killing some boars. You say now but it actually came many weeks ago, renown catch up has been ready since day 1, sure no catch up to make but, you could have made an alt 4 weeks ago and get to high renown to complete a soulbind already.
Gear leveling in BFA was the same as now, minus titanforginf, warforging.mythic nyalotha gear to shadowlands is around ilvl130, and each raid upgrades level in 13ilvl, instead of 15, but that’s a number crunching perspective, in legion you had up to ilvl 1000, cut some zeroes, if proportionally remains the same, it doesn’t matter, and it does. normal-heroic-mythic is 187-200-213-226, in BFA it was 385-400-415-430-445-460-475. What are you talking about? getting gear for gold? like you could with reputations? you can do that now, the quartermasters still exist, getting rare blue drops? those were still garbage, ilvl 283, when normal Uldir was 355.
I’m a player wanting to know why people seem to hate to much the game they bought. I know it has flaws, but also goods, and I very rarely see the good points coming up, hence this post. I wish people pointed out the good aspects more often instead of calling it garbage at every chance they have. WoW players are one kind where if you ask “do you like the game?” they’ll answer No more often than not, which is weird. It’s like an obvious thing that you like the game you play, but when it comes to wow forums, it’s the apparent opposite. No need to feel sorry, they don’t care if we do, no need, but to also praise the goods, and here the post is asking that, what do you want? what do you like?
And you go again with the money, jeez, I come from a 3rd world country, we gain so little cash for many hours of job and we can afford the game without ranting about it so much, can’t you? Where are the people buying Apple products for hundreds of dollars, calling broke to anyone who doesn’t, where are the people saying “actually, you can make gold easily” and gold = playtime = no money involved. Unless you feel like you can’t buy tokens and must pay with money. If I’m not wrong, you can redeem a token for 15$ of ingame cash, that can be coined to playtime any day, so you don’t really have to waste money by subbing consecutive months… i might be crazy, but I don’t see what the money problem is there.
I need to respond to this section in particular because you aren’t entirely wrong but you also are absolutely not right.
Yes, tier sets and the like are a form of borrowed power. Absolutely correct. However there are several factors that makes it completely different to the borrowed power systems we have had since Legion.
First and foremost, they complement the class design. They take an already complete and fleshed out class and enhance them with new playstyles. Borrowed powers like the Artifact Weapon, Heart of Azeroth and even the Covenant system are designed to be the class design. Take them away and you are left with hollowed out husks, incomplete classes. Artifact Weapons felt good because they completed our class. Losing the Artifact Weapons felt awful because it made us realise just how empty our classes were without them. Azerite Armor sucked because it didn’t do anything to fix our broken classes, while Heart of Azeroth essences did, though as an fyi, essences only existed because azerite was so broken that blizz decided to instead abandon that idea completely and layer on a new system on top of it. When you lose a tier set, it sucks a bit but you’re fine because the core of your class is still intact. You also only had a patch with them. When you lose the expansions borrowed power system, everything is broken.
Secondly, tier sets were a reward. You progressed through the content and you were rewarded with cool new game changing effects. Borrowed power systems are designed to be skinner boxes, forcing you to log in and do your AP grind at the risk of falling behind. You aren’t being rewarded, you are being forced to treat the game like a job. You didn’t need to keep logging in to grind tier sets, you just earned them abd felt good for achieving your goal. There is no goal with the AP grind, there is only the treadmill.
As an addendum to the above point, tier sets were also the reward specifically for raiding. With its removal in BFA, guilds stopped farming raids because the best gear was all in M+ anyway. You just cleared the raid and you were done. Blizz had to give higher than otherwise achievable ilvl gear to the final bosses starting with Nyalotha just to entice people to keep doing raids, and THAT had only caused people to complain about the upcoming Valor system not being able to upgrade past 220 to match mythic raids. Raids HAVE to have a unique reward besides “higher ilvl” and tier sets was that reward.
Tier sets also came with a lot of cosmetic appeal, a lot of which was lost with their removal.
There are a LOT of reasons why people like tier sets and want them back, whereas borrowed power systems are needlessly complicated and contrived, leaves us with broken classes when they go away, and ultimately are there purely to keep us logged in grinding them out, rather than the fun rewards we used to get.