Talking about everything thats ever cried about here on the forums. To raiding to being to difficult, to mythic plus being to difficult, to what ever. Like bruh (not just you) look in LFR look at all the brain dead people who can’t do mechanics, who cant interrupt, who can’t even not stand in stuff. LFR nyalotha bosses are getting up to 10 stacks of determination for the few who are good at the game to carry. Why are we catering to these people who refuse to play the game in any manner or form? I mean i dont care which direction this torghast timer goes but these people crying here is just like they need to get a grip.
If you don’t care about the topic being discussed, why are you commenting?
I’m bored and while bored anything looks entertaining. Plus i’m always curious to what new drama the forum playerbase has to say about something.
But they’ll care about pushing it as high as they can go, because that’s what they find fun.
Which is what this change is aimed at. It’s aimed at providing a more enjoyable experience at the absolute high end because it eliminates the strategy of “wait for cooldowns, do next pack, repeat ad infinitum”, which would be optimal, but is boring as hell.
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If you want to push Torghast as high as you can, because that’s what you find fun,
but the actual pushing Torghast process beyond a certain point becomes boring and not fun, because you are waiting on cooldowns forever,
Isn’t it no longer fun at that point? Wouldn’t that mean you should stop pushing it at that point?
By the way, torments do not provide a more enjoyable experience at any level, IME. They are an annoyance to be played around, not an additional challenge to overcome. Imagine you have just cleared a difficult room. You sit down to eat and regen health before moving on. 3 ticks into your food, an add spawns and attacks you. You kill it, and need to eat again, because you barely healed. 3 ticks into your foor, an add spawns…
Next run, you go in on a Warrior and pick Second Wind so you have more sustain. You roll the Soulforge torment, which deals fire damage every 5 seconds. Second Wind requires you to not take damage for 5 seconds, making the talent useless, and gutting your sustain.
Maybe, MAYBE I could concede that ramping your damage taken or reducing your damage done could provide an additional challenge, in that you need to play better to avoid taking as many hits as possible, or you need to survive for much longer in order to kill the enemy. I still think the system as-is is a terrible idea.
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It discourages pushing because the strategy needed to push isn’t fun. Since the only way that you could fail Torghast at this point would be to actually die, you can also just play classes that have huge innate survivability, pushing other classes out of the meta so to speak, kinda like how the current M+ massively favours those who do large amounts of AoE damage.
It’s not that the Torments are supposed to provide an inherently positive experience, but that they eliminate the possibility of an extremely negative experience, namely the “wait 10 minutes between every fight to have Bloodlust” strategy.
It’s the same reasoning behind why bosses that might only take 5-10 minutes if executed properly can have a 15 minute enrage timer, or why M+ itself has a timer.
I’m in favour of the concept, not necessarily the current execution.
I’m more than open to retuning or even completely scrapping some affixes. But I do think some sort of soft-timer is healthy for Torghast.
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Blizzard Simps: “Shamans will sit around waiting for the Bloodlust debuff to fade if you let them!”
Actual Shamans in Alpha: runs through Torghast without stopping, steamrolling everything, not needing to push Bloodlust because they have it passively from procs
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Brilliant suggestion and concept. Whoever on the team came up with that idea are really clever.
It’s called having your cake and eating it too. My kind of thinking process.
Vital means necessary to survive the next level, usually, as far as roguelikes go. “Exploring” also tends to involve “finding the exit” and wondering “where the heck am I?”.
It usually ends in “fun” (copyright Dwarf Fortress). Sometimes, it results in clearing a floor.
This so much. Why would I even bother with Torghast when I can play ToME, which has a better AI, is harder and…has no timer for most content. Most. The occassional timer is fine, but making it mandatory is the big mistake.
I love this reference. Great book.
ANYWAY:
Torments should not be a thing, period. Not in mandatory content. Put them in bonus areas, hide them away in brutal, mob-filled rooms that relentlessly push you to the brink of your skill. Bonus areas with Torments are A-OK. They add an extra exploration factor to the tower itself, as people try to figure out the secrets and unlocks. This is a gameplay plus.
Adding torments zone-wide is simply lazy design. Add more enemies instead. Add traps. Add something that doesn’t procedurally make the game harder depending on how much time you spend. There are many, many ways to do this. The big one would be to make zone functions STATIC and THEMATIC.
Say, this:
You’re in a fire themed floor. Fire spells are weaker against fire based enemies, but hyper effective against others. Cold spells are the reverse. The frost debuff slow you can pop is entirely nonfunctional. You now have the choice to swap weapons as a hunter engineer, or swap specs as a mage. Other classes will be largely unaffected.
You have a water themed floor. You need to swim from oxygen bubble to oxygen bubble or possibly drown on the way. Lightning is ridiculously effective, but damages yourself as well.
You have a swamp based floor. Movement is slowed. Bleeding effects (on you or on the NPCs) cause extra damage by attracting piranha swarms to niggle away at you.
None of the above are timers. None of them increase with time spent on a floor. But they all can make a floor that much harder. -This- is what I want Torghast to be. And it’s certainly within Blizzard’s capabilities to make it. I do not need Horrific Visions 2.0.
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Blunt answer: because their/our $15 is just a profitable to Blizzard as yours.
Well I asked you your definition of casual and I didn’t see you provide it.
Basically this. If Blizz is thinking they have to put some sort of time constraints on because ppl will be waiting on all their CD’s, then they clearly don’t play this game. At all.
It’s getting really tiring having to deal with developers so obviously out of touch with their players.
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Sorry, missed it then. Been posting allot lately, and replying allot as well.
There’s another post conversation that I did with someone who was saying that you can casually do mythic raiding, where I described what I thought was a casual, based in the dictionary term for casual used as an adjective. So I’ve answered that question already really.
Blunt response: their opinions will kill off the game and make people not want to continue to pay $15 where my opinions (and those who share them) may possibly make the game more successful. Why play a game with no challenge, everything given to them, and they never feel rewarded? Or are they just hoping for the ultimate social chat box of some form?
I am not going through your posts to find it. I am guessing you aren’t using it in the typical manner people are using though based on that response so good luck in getting a productive discussion.
Sorry, took a moment for me to find that link. Read the conversation starting at that point, more or less.
As a casual player, I’m pretty sure I’m using it correctly, but we humans don’t always know what a dictionary is, so we invent our own versions of a defined term.
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Casual, someone who doesn’t participate regularly. So if you’re casual about the content you don’t engage with the content all the time and when you do it’s often not for very long. Which affects things like the ability to gear up or developing the sorts of skills people who play the game for 12 hours a day hone.
Sounds about right 
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By that definition I wouldn’t considered you a casual player at all. You are posting on this forum which means you are anything but unconcerned.
I think definition number 2 fits much more aptly
Yes but a player not participating regularly wouldn’t necessarily have a problem with a timer at all. There is nothing inherent in just playing WoW once or twice a week that makes a timer bad.