If they only could develop some pause mechanic or something for those situation would be more beneficial for everyone
Or a class-by-class debuff that limits how many times the large CD abilities can be used per floor.
Thatâs a horrible idea that adds an extra difficulty for lower and higher floors
I must be missing why min/max groups waiting for bloodlust every pull is a problem. MAYBE 1-3% of players will do that⊠It seems like they are implementing solutions for things that arenât really a problem.
3 Likes
Elaborate?
This. Or they are using that as some kind of bizarre deflection from balance purposes that I donât fully understand. Why is Torghast different from any other content that this suddenly matters?
Or is Blizzard ready to have a discussion about unhealthy habits vis-a-vis WoW? No?
2 Likes
The stated purpose of the torments is to apply pressure so you feel you need to keep moving forward, rather than waiting for all your cooldowns to be up every time you see a pull that looks scary.
I get the concern. I just started another run, this time starting from floor 19*, and it was MUCH harder. Everything is scaled up just like you would expect based on looking at mob health and damage grow from 1 to 18, but now you have literally 1 anima power to deal with it, rather than 50ish. Itâs legit scary, and I can see why you would feel forced to wait on CDs. That said, even on floor 19, the challenge comes from the mobs being strong and you being weak comparatively, and the torment is still just an annoyance.
Blizz has stated that Torghast is required for legendary crafting progression. I canât find the quote, but I believe Ion has stated the intent is that you complete the required progression fairly quickly (letâs assume a single 1-18 clear gets you hardcapped on legendary progression for the week). Torghast bosses drop epic loot, but itâs placeholder right now so we have no idea what ilvl, or how (or if) it scales as you ascend the tower. Assuming the best loot you can get from Torghast is on par with (or weaker than) the best loot you can get from M+, the hardcore crowd will have no reason to push Torghast to the extreme to enable their raid progression, and thus will have no incentive to wait on long CDs.
With that said, if there is still a concern that people will feel compelled to push high floors, and they will feel forced to wait on CDs to clear those floors, I have 2 suggestions to incentivize players to keep moving quickly:
- Provide an actual gameplay incentive for clearing quickly. I would suggest a Treasure Goblin (or a buff on the last enemy of the floor) or similar near the exit portal, who offers additional loot and an anima power, but despawns ~15 minutes after you enter the floor.
- Provide a cosmetic incentive for clearing quickly. This can be unique transmog, mounts, titles, whatever. This could be associated with timed leaderboards, such that you need to maintain your record in order to maintain the title, like fast keystone clears, or CMs in MoP and WoD.
Assuming those incentives arenât good enough, you could use gameplay systems to remove the benefit from waiting around:
- Restrict cooldowns to a given number of uses per floor. This would allow you to offer extra uses as anima powers. Alternately, and this is already in game, they could offer anima powers that proc those cooldowns when something happens (my last run procced Trueshot for 60 seconds at the beginning of every floor).
- Prevent cooldowns from cooling down if you spend more than ~30 seconds out of combat without interacting with the environment in some way (e.g. exploring undiscovered portions of the floor, solving a chest puzzle, dodging traps, etc).
Assuming they donât want to design new systems for this purpose and they think Torments are fine, they should make some improvements:
- Remove any torments that serve as an AFK check rather than ramping difficulty. Spawning an add randomly while you are out of combat is trivial if the add is trivial. Likewise for sticking a DoT on somebody when it does low enough damage to be easily healed. This would allow torments to gradually ramp difficulty, giving you a gameplay disincentive for sitting around waiting, but wouldnât punish you with death if you need to AFK for a couple minutes.
- Modify the safe zone at the beginning of each floor to be persistent, with a leash line for enemies so you canât kite them all the way back to the start, and to prevent cooldowns from cooling down in the safe zone if you have already been in combat on that floor. That would give you a safe place to AFK for a few minutes if needed, but wouldnât make your run any easier if you chose to do so.
- Add a âpauseâ feature that incapacitates you (and enemies), and prvents your cooldowns from cooling down while active
Personally I think they should just incentivize the kind of play they want to see (the Treasure Goblin method), and let everyone who doesnât care about those incentives just skip them.
- Torghast runs are limited to 18 floors at a time, starting on floor 1, 7, 13, and 19
6 Likes
Give me alpha access, and Iâll give you 100% honest feedbackâŠOk thanks.
This is the kind of feedback we need. Feed back from alpha players that can understand the issues, yet still come up with ideas that can handle some of them as well.
Those not in alpha and playing around with the set up should still provide feedback, but âtimers suck, Torghast dead on arrival for meâ is not good feedback and comes across more as judging something without really knowing what it is like.
Until people try something, they should at least temper their arguments with input that states concerns but not that they donât want to do it because they hate similar content which they also donât do.
In otherwords: donât knock it till you try it, and if you donât want to try it, get knocked out of conversations about such.
3 Likes
Because like they said in the OP, if you want to push effectively, thatâs how youâll do it. Itâs the same reasoning of why M+ has timers, since it isnât an individual fight, there has to be some sort of countermeasure to prevent people from cheesing it with cooldowns and lust.
They want the âwallâ to be like M+ where you end up failing because youâre not fast enough, instead of failing only when mobs scale so high they one-shot you.
Other content already has checks to prevent this kind of behaviour.
Visions have sanity, M+ has the timer, and they fixed this with raids long ago when they made everything reset when the boss resets.
Torments are timers though. Is this a misinformation thread or something?
4 Likes
So, Torghast doesnât have timers, except for the timers, got it.
6 Likes
Or they could eliminate the incentive for this behavior by keeping the power rewards that everyone wants to hardcap on the easier floors where this behavior provides no practical benefit. Then nobody will care about waiting for CDs, because the only people doing it will be those pushing extremely high floors for prestige.
Its shame on timers, i was really excited for this but i just cannot handle timers with my anxiety condition. Idk why but it makes me shake and etc, i had to avoid content like m+, visions, i would legit get sick to stomach. I hope they dont, i want to get back into pve but not if it same thing again.
2 Likes
Well considering they want Torghast to be a legitimate form of solo-progression, it seems counterproductive to remove any incentive for actually pushing it.
Even pushing keys past the ilvl cap still increases their rewards through more loot and more residuum in the end of week chest.
Iâm watching slootâs stream, and he has the eye of skoldus torment, and its summoning two dangerous mobs every 10 seconds he isnt fighting something, and it just seems absolutely terrible. Seems like a timer to me.
7 Likes
Yeah, and hardcore raiders and M+ teams wonât care about that, because they already get the basic loot from M+ and raiding at better loot/hour rates.
Aside from the legendary stuff, Torghast only gives you one epic item every 6 floors.
They arenât terribly dangerous unless you are at high floors, they are mostly super annoying. It is absolutely terrible.
All the classes are easy to use, combat in this game is easy, difficulty only comes from mutiple mechanics and finding people who arent braindead to play with. I think all instanced content needs to be locked behind proving grounds again. If you canât pass the basics of proving grounds then you shouldnât be allowed input for how this game is designed. Iâm looking at you people who donât even know what a interrupt is or why its necessary to use.
Why complain about finding people to play with when Torghast is 1-5 players and you can solo?