i mean no disrespect to the council members whom actually want to improve the game, but did anybody really think the community council was anything more than a pr stunt?
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Well for starters the thing is how do you know theyâre not invested? Thatâs kind of a bit of a stretch to claim theyâre not invested. I mean should we say frustrated CE raiders who left because of the chores werenât invested, we do have evidence and complaints some left from there too. Why is one group invested, the other is not? Both have grievances and both should be heard.
EDIT: I see all the people typing here and I can hear the white knights coming to tell us that we need to ignore these players because of reasons. Lol. So much for every voice, right?
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I did and still do.
Change doesnât happen instantaneously. Itâs a process that takes time. Iâm still giving my time and effort to hopefully making the game even better.
Asking for changes to 9.2 is probably a long shot, but down the road changes, or even explanations are still very possible.
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Even if someone is doing low keys or normal that does not mean they are not invested in the game. It just means they are invested in a different part of the game. If you read the requirements for the CC you would have noticed that it weeded out some of your more causal players. So why apply when they clearly do not want you?
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As long as they arenât inviting people who are basically âWoW bad, blizzard bad lulâ doomsayers, Iâm ok with the council
To be honest, you applied for CC from the forum link and where youâre supposed to post feedback is on the forums for it. Further, you have to provide that youâve 'contributed to the communityâ in some way. Which is quite vague, but again is another requirement on top of a requirement.
To get better feedback Blizzard shouldâve honestly sent more surveys, polls, other options of feedback to ALL players. Itâs weird to me theyâve always selectively chosen who to even give out surveys to, not a whole lot of the playerbase has used/uses the forums actively. Invite more people to alpha/beta rather than using it for advertisement/hype.
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Let me clarify I didnât mean it as a derogatory, and with that said you know they arenât as invested in the game because the game naturally pushes you into higher difficulties once you go into end game, if you start doing low key you would eventually end up in at least +10s and up if you continue playing the game. Leading to the conclusion that those players either are very very bad at the game or are simply not invested enough to apply to the CC or have never heard of it even.
Meaning that they are not casual in that particular corner of the game. You can be a casual raider and a hardcore pet battler. The way I describe a casual is someone that plays the game very loosely and does not have a particular niche in it. Like I said above no matter what you are doing the game will push you to progress to more you play it, and the more you play the less casual you are. Hope this makes sense and clarifies things a bit.
Each player member is most likely going to talk about what they are interested in .
If you or even I were a part of most of what we would talk about is what interests us.
The real problem isnât the player members in it and to be honest Iâm not even sure all of the player members have been selected yet . THe problem is the Blizz side of the council and the little responses they have made.
They came up with the council and need to be more active with it . Another thing is in order to get more concise topics to focus on they need to do like they do with Beta and PTR and make premade threads on topics that they and the player members can discuss.
Right now to no fault of the player members own the CC forum just looks like a place where Blizz can ignore the players easier because they donât have to sort through multiple Rate the Mog above you ,Roast the player above you or you have to marry the player above you threads.
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Keep slamming them to overhaul and add more to pvp and wpvp.
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From where Iâm sitting the whole forum is a joke. Itâs a joke because Blizz isnât holding up their end of what they said they would do. But for a lot of players it goes beyond that.
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Casual players warned when this was first announced we knew who was going to be selected. (And I said Iâm probably gonna make an excel sheet, and when I do Iâm willing to bet that fear is completely correct)
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Blizz did this before but only with High end players. They were also ignored but while thatâs the biggest joke of that forum and this new forum, the original fear from point 1 totally ties into this point
In politics this is called access journalism. Itâs a complaint that a lot of smaller journalists have with other larger journalists that theyâd rather ignore stories to gain access to a government official. This is kinda what it feels like. Then we get this forum idea from Blizz who in their intro video to it made it seem like they werenât listening. Then players left prior to that but again I think the group that left these lead devs and company leaders are totally fine with ignoring them, and I say thatâs because Kaplan and Alex left such a bad stain with casual players because they hated them and that institutional bias still lingers in the company.
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Some of us really donât like group content, at all. I love the RPG aspect, love seeing other people active in towns or cities, etc. I donât like actually grouping, esp forced grouping to finish the story/quests that are core to the game.
I have done zero SL dungeons and have never done a Mythic of any sort ever. This is by choice. It is also why the only thread on the CC I have posted so far is about solo options for dungeon and raid content. It also addresses some of the reasons people avoid groups and accessibility.
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Ok good for you, you are not a casual though (and I really hate to use that word because no one can agree on what it actually means).
When I said this
I didnât mean it exclusively for the big three, the more you play the more invested you are in the game meaning you are no longer a casual.
As per this part
I didnât say that not doing dungeons or raids or whatever means you arenât invested in the game, buuut if you start doing them you wouldnât be just doing the low ones as the game is pushing you to progress. If someone who is playing for M+ and/or raid is still doing low keys or progressing normal at this point they are either not invested in the game, meaning that they are not playing it as much as the average wow player) or are really bad so the game is keeping them from progressing.
The key difference here is that Frostyjawn specifically asked about people doing low keys and normal. If someone is not interested in M+, raiding or group content in general then why would they even be doing low keys and normal raiding when Normal dungeons and LFR are the path of least resistance.
And lets be real here, no casual comes to the forums.
I think this genre of game just isnât for some people no matter how much they pretend it is.
Iâd actually appreciate it if you did talk more about the RPG elements, the rest of the council seems to have an odd fascination with systems and the more mechanical aspects of the game, which honestly the developers have shown they can handle thinking about themselves (if nothing else).
Itâs refreshing for example to see Hallite discussing what class glyphs should look like or the possibility of true customizable player housing and discussing how that should maybe be and not be implemented for example.
Would be much appreciated, thank you Mirasol.
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For me the issue is there are too many unknowns. We have no idea how convinced Blizz is that any change of direction is needed in terms of WoW. I suspect that there is not a lot of unanimity on final designs but, to quote Kosh, âThe avalanche has started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote.â
Likewise we have no idea how representative any of the forums participants or the CC is are in terms of issues. Blizz has the numbers and can see what the participation in group events, PvP or farming old content is. We do not, we only have our personal impressions along with rose or thorn tinted glasses to filter what we are seeing. Likewise, those inside Blizz have their own biases when analyzing the data.
The forums could provide useful feedback but intolerance of opposing opinions and a general lack of respect for each other pretty much hamstrings our usefulness in terms of presenting Blizz with a broad consensus regarding issues. There are occasional posts that are thoughtful and well expressed but are totally diluted by tedious bickering and personal attacks. I suspect for the most part we forum posters are just fleas annoying an elephant.
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If 9.2 is an indicator they arenât.
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9.2 doesnât have Pathfinder
None of Shadowlands have Pathfinder like requirements therefore they did listen
Would you rather have Pathfinder again?
Thanks, this does clarify things a lot. People have so many different definitions for casual means to them it is hard to understand what they mean.
The more I think about the more I like the niche example. Niche game play used to be a thing in WoW and slowly a lot of those niches have gone away or became not enjoyable.
What was pathfinder than a timegate?
WoD-BfA - In one year we will introduce an achievement that will unlock flying, but in that time you can passively grind this rep that you will need for the achievement.
SL-In one year we are going to unlock flying.
Its the same thing.
I would rather not have to wait a year in order to unlock flying.
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The things needed to get flying in Sl is still a form of pathfinder even if not in name .
I have no problem with it being needed to be lock behind content but the only content that should be required for opening flying and that is completing the story campaign and the exploring of the zones for said patch/es and it should open up flying for that patch/es as soon as completed and the player is at max level for the expansion .
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