BG Conquest points motivates the wrong behavior

PVP Battlegrounds
84

People already do all this. Players will continue to do all these things with or without changes.
Making it account wide just means people who character switch like OP will no longer be able to. This is a good thing because now they are forced to deal with their shortcomings instead of jumping to another toon to go right back and… not help/leave/etc.

I don’t personally foresee the people who are bad at BGs growing or lessening. It will be the same people as before they will just lose one way to escape the consequences of leaving.

2 Likes
85

How?

The deserter debuff exists for a reason. It should be a player punishment, not a character one. Account-wide makes sense.

No one’s ignorant enough to think this will eliminate AFK’ing- it’s just a more fair response to it.

86

You’re not going to change player behavior is all I’m saying, players will continue to AFK out of losing bgs regardless. No punishment increase will “stop” that.

Like I said, (as much as you would like to) you can’t “force” someone to stay in a group full of baddies/long drawn-out loss. To be honest even if they increased the penalty to like 1 hour, even that would NOT deter me from leaving a baddie group/losing bg :thinking:

I bet a lot of Alliance players would be quite upset/out-raged by such a sudden change as well, since most ragequitting seem to be from Alliance players. Imagine what the forums would look like if all these Alliance suddenly had to deal with “account-wide” deserter… this place would be flooded with complaint threads :rofl: :rofl:

1 Like
87

nah more fair would be to make losses less of a waste of our gameplay time

bliz isn’t respecting our time currently, long loss streaks can waste hours. Makes no sense at all.

3 Likes
88

How about do arenas or rated battlegrounds for conquest instead of leaving your team?

3 Likes
89

I know, that’s why I said:

Let me put it to you this way:

Would you support removing the deserter debuff entirely? Why/why not?

People ought to stop expecting to be rewarded for their time and start expecting rewards for results. Once again, raiders who try hard to kill a boss but can’t get nothing.

If you want efficient conquest, play rated. If you want to play a casual, non-competitive format and earn some conquest along the way, then that’s on you.

90

Considering that random bgs are non-serious, non-competitive, casual content I think the existing deserter penalty is fine as it is, the only change I would make to it is as follows:

  • Implement a “grace period” that lasts until the “starting gate” of a bg opens, during which you can leave a bg without incurring deserter penalty. If you chose to stick around until “after” the match starts? And you leave in the middle of the match? Then yeah, giving people deserter for that is fair enough :thinking:

That’s about it, I wouldn’t change anything else really. Random bgs are meant to be casual/for fun content, I don’t really see a reason to “punish” people for non-serious content.

If any game system is in “need” of some kind of penalty for leaving… it’s Mythic+ :joy: That’s one system where people invest real time and effort pushing their keys, and all that work can be ruined by just 1 random stranger suddenly leaving/rage-quitting. Seems like a flawed system with it’s complete lack of consequences for leavers, but that’s a whole other topic in itself :thinking:

91

nah people ought to stop expecting players to waste their valuable free time in a game, especially when it is due to matchmaking and gear imbalances that they have no control over

if you want a bunch of cannon fodder in your matches wasting their time, maybe they should be replaced by AI when they exit

2 Likes
92

We agree then that the deserter penalty serves a purpose. Why do you believe it makes sense for this penalty to be character specific rather than specific to the player?

What about a debuff lasting exactly 15 minutes that affects exactly one character feels so right to you?

93

It’s a game. You’re having fun, right?

Think about what you’re advocating for here. You’re not even asking for participation rewards, you’re asking to be rewarded for simply showing up. You want the guy who’s jumping in circles at the entry gate to receive conquest.

You want people who aren’t interested in contributing to stick around and do nothing versus leaving and being replaced by someone who potentially does want to help.

You want to give new reason for a botting resurgence.

What you want is bad for the game.

2 Likes
94

nah you’re arguing that everyone will bot but that isn’t the case, bliz bans them

what matters is compelling gameplay and avoiding delivering a feeling of unnecessarily wasting players’ time

old honor/conquest system rewarded spendable currency for gear regardless of win or loss, it valued players time. They just got less of it for a loss

your base assumption is wrong on its foundation. Bg’s existed for years with honor for losses. We don’t balance the game around cheaters (aka bots/scripters). We balance around real players and ban/block the cheaters.

your ability to trivially throw away paying players free time, when they have to endure gross imbalances from matchmaking, is breathtaking in its naivete

guys jumping in circles get kicked, peeps botting get banned, your job isn’t figuring out punitive gameplay systems to demotivate cheating. Your job is to provide feedback as to what you find to be compelling gameplay.

current system is an incredible lwo in participation compared to WoD and previous. Your kind of thinking has led to this.

3 Likes
95

The penalty is “about right” given the content it applies to (random/unrated bgs)

If I do an LFR on toon A and leave for whatever reason (such as the group being bad/the group racking up 10 stacks of determination) - incurring dungeon deserter - should that dungeon deserter debuff “carry over” to toon B? Of course not :joy:

Just like with casual PvE content (LFR, heroics, etc), it only makes sense that casual PvP content (random bgs, brawls, etc) only applies lockouts/penalties/etc to the individual character that actually left the raid.

96

Nah. I’m not.

Right and you could only get gear to a point. We now have access to the same gear that higher end, ranked players have with the caveat that it’s slower for us to acquire. Sounds fair enough.

Honor for losses was fine because you couldn’t get high end gear with it. You got welfare and after that, you got absolutely nothing with honor.

The game’s population has been in decline since, when, wrath? You can point to whatever you like as the reason if it suits your argument but that doesn’t make it true.

97

Yeah I guess I don’t do arena so I can’t speak for how that pacing feels.

That said, 26 hours after weekly reset and I was capped on CP. Didn’t do that much either.

It is a brawl week, be sure to capitalize on that for the daily win at least. Even if the brawl’s poop (this one’s one of the better ones).

98

… Of course it should lol why in the world should it not?

These desertions hurt people with a single main more than people who actively play multiple characters. Why? Is desertion less adverse to your team if you play alts? :thinking:

99

Sorry man but it doesn’t. I’m not sure what game would work best with people ragequitting and cycling through a revolving door of alts to evade it.

1 Like
100

nah current conquest rewards are about comparable to what we got with honor before, because the honor gear scaled up during pvp combat or had preferably pvp stats/bonuses

we currently grind for arguably almost worthless conquest gear that is mostly wasted because we already got it in pve

yet you seem to want players to waste tons of time getting this mediocre gear?

yeah decline in wow pop but the pvp participation dropped by over 80% in legion, and has only recovered by about 30-40% in WoD

still about 1/10th of WoD and even less compared to previous xpacs

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101

Can we get a source on that?

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102

go look it up buddy, easy to find

had some dude dropping exact stats with a mic drop in another thread

participation has COLLAPSED because of these new gearing systems, and part of it is because of no value for losses.

obviously not everything is because of wasted time in losses, a lot of it is also because the gear sucks

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103

The gearing system does suck, that’s for sure. I am curious where these figures came from as well, though. Not curious enough to redo all the research mind you, but I am curious.

1 Like