BG Conquest points motivates the wrong behavior

[Äbsinthe-hyjal]

hey Absinthe, thanks for the likes

By any chance do you have a Shaman alt? I could’ve sworn I saw an “Absinthe” the other day in an epic, but I think it was a Shaman

I could be mistaken, it just seems like your name rings a bell

I do have a Shaman alt, but he’s VandeGraaf, so different name.

Just dinged a mage to 120, so I tried a new way to gear her up after doing WQ’s a bunch. Given the low return on my time investment in BG’s the past months, I decided to gear her with LFR instead of PvP like my other toons.

Had so much fun, I did all the raids (other than the lowbie one…Uldir?) on all of my 120’s. So you MIGHT have seen me there on Absinthe the past weeks, healing.

Trying out a new foot-pedal (by “Stinky” lol. But don’t let the name fool you, it’s a really great USB foot-pedal!) and different mouse to streamline macros/keybinds for PvP, so I haven’t been doing PvP until I get the new muscle memory in place.

[Gdtroll-illidan (Gdtroll)]

A lot of these guys have this narrative that goes something like this:

“you made your bed, now lay in it”

When in reality what often happens is you are one of the (few) good players on the team, and at some point it becomes obvious that the team is bad through no fault of your own (example: your teammates decide to rush Galv right out of the starting gate, despite being told not to).

So you make the smart, correct, logical decision to leave the OBVIOUS loss and not waste any more of your time with such baddies. There’s nothing “wrong” with this, contrary to what white-knight types might say

And of course, it’s just a video game, it’s supposed to be entertainment… so calling for “punishments” is pretty bizarre imo. We don’t play video games to be “told what to do” or to be “punished”, the main goal is to have fun (whatever that means for you).

[Äbsinthe-hyjal]

When in reality what often happens is you are one of the (few) good players on the team, and at some point it becomes obvious that the team is bad through no fault of your own (example: your team decides to rush Galv right out of the starting gate, despite being told not to).

Oh good lord, the number of games I had to resist leaving the second I see 20 Ally at Galv at the start of AV. I will say, one time (out of 10, 20?) whoever was on offense knew what they were doing, and we won.

But 19x out of 20, it’s people who I am pretty sure haven’t done AV since 2013 or something like that.

If you felt a mental-high five a second ago, when I saw you had typed that about Galv, that’s why lol

(* I do stay in those games. Until we’re down 2 towers and still don’t have IBGY. I always take the time to type something like “Guys, Galv is great to kill when we have IBGY, and are stuck in a turtle going south…but all you did was let the Horde get ahead on towers”.

Honestly, most of those games, the 20 bored Horde in IBT come wipe them on Galv, and it ends up aa worse loss than the usual 1-2 tower loss by squandering lots of time not taking IBT, before they take IBGY first *)

[Gdtroll-illidan (Gdtroll)]

I actually had it happen tonight (again). Seems to be happening more and more lately, I don’t know where these Galv jokers come from

My second to last epic of the night had like 18-19 Alliance run straight into Galv immediately … of course you can probably guess how the match played out

Yep, you guessed it… loss

[Äbsinthe-hyjal]

Hey, one non-sequitur (PvP related at least) There is a 6v6 tournament for BG’s run by GCD. First round was today. Second round will be tomorrow at 1pm PST. 6 teams left. Really fun to watch.

EU will be next week. I think Thursday and Friday. Here is the link to the post in the forums:

Announcing GCDTV's 6v6 Tournament Series

GCDTV 6v6 Tournament Series [image] We will be hosting a series of 6 total (3 NA and 3 EU) 6v6 tournaments throughout the year. The first of which are slated for broadcast towards the end of this month. We’re excited to showcase these matches on newly redesigned brawl-style 6v6 maps, including: Warsong Gulch, Silvershard Mines, Temple of Kotmogu, and Battle for Gilneas. To encourage competitiveness and fair play, we’re also pleased to announce th…

Venruki and Healingstat and Elbarath(sp?) were casters. A few of the AWC players were on the teams too, Milkmanx and…Seth Curry. Well worth watching! (might be on VoDs soon too )

[Lasagna-frostwolf]

Dat necro.
When people respond to threads a month later to me I can’t even remember what the conversation was about. Bleh.
I’m fixing to go to bed so this might be jumbled.

You seem to take my post as a personal attack and see fit to respond with how excellent you are and how much of an asset you are to your BG teams and trying to use that as an excuse to exempt you from consequences that everyone should face for leaving a BG. I can not trust you are any of the things you say. Not that I don’t think you are fine at BGs you probably are. I just have no proof and it has no bearing on if you should receive the debuff or not. you are not special or different than anyone else.

The shortcoming you are currently defending is one of patience you lack.

No I don’t forsee people who afk in BGs getting better. This is not a question of gear or skill that can improve overtime this is a question of personal choice made when you bail on a team/give up/only care about winning for conquest instead of taking part in the actual game.

You already get a return in investment. You get honor already and you get conquest on a win. Your greed for more than that does not entitle you to bail without consequence.

@Äbsinthe-hyjal

The behavior that will engender is people playing at 30% capacity in PvP. Guarding flags they don’t need to guard. Running headlong into an enemy once in a while, then delaying rez at a GY.

People already do this. It’s not very common and when they do I report them afk or I lifegrip them out of the GY into horde packs until they learn to stop being a baby for dying in pvp. The mentality is still beyond me.

@Äbsinthe-hyjal

They don’t want to waste TIME. Since the deserter debuff, as you imagine it, will be an hour, the best they can do, is throw the match. To waste less of their TIME. What will your system cause them to do?

I think people throwing matches is akin to a child throwing themselves on the ground in an angry fit. It’s about as useful.
The debuff is there to make you think twice and continue the match so that even while losing people can still fight each other on an even ground and have fun. Even turn games around into wins.
People will need to get over the fact that they will lose games. That does not mean the game can be less fun while you can still fight.
If you don’t want to waste time don’t join into a team game that is time intensive.

@Äbsinthe-hyjal

They will heal less. Do less dmg than they can. Because they want the game to end. They can’t AFK out. Because of your deserter debuff being accountwide/60 minutes. But they know they are not going to win. And they dont’ have a lot of time. And they want this BG to end, so they might get out and try to get a win. For Conquest Points. Before they run out of TIME.

I don’t think the majority of people are as childish and useless as you perceive. Call me optimistic.
Again, the debuff is there to notify you of the consequences of joining a team game and then leaving your team at a disadvantage.
You joined to pvp. Try and not to leave and punish your team for your own impatience.

@Äbsinthe-hyjal

Your system would cause people, to throw the game, as quickly as possible. So they avoid the deserter debuff. And they waste as little TIME as possible.

Just because you would does not mean everyone else would.
Please go read BDM’s strawpoll here: Strawpoll How many times do you AFK out of a BG In a Week?

I agree the gear lotto needs to change. It’s boring and demoralizing and makes their content droughts worse. The gear is also not as worthwhile to gather. That does not mean you afk and ruin other peoples good time.

[Daark-cenarius]

They tried giving currency to players for losses. People just used honor buddy and afked. Rather people afk out, then sit in the gy jumping every 10 seconds.

[Pípíkaula-proudmoore]

How about we remove conquest from random bg? You don’t get a mythic plus cache for doing heroics.

why stop there? just remove pvp all together.

Perhaps late to this thread (?, TY necro), but great point.

Separately, to people who say “remove conquest from BGs” you like to think you’re ‘funny’ but you’re not.

You’re the kind of people who think just because you play a game a certain way, it would be fine if things were removed, or punished, for those who don’t play it the way you do. TBVH I wonder if you’re even capable of learning a better, reasonable attitude toward this being a game for all sorts of folks to enjoy.

[Ndulu-sisters-of-elune]

See, I’d stay in a loss. First of all, some losses turn into great comeback wins. And other people are there gearing up, so an investment for more honor (i.e. a closer game, more kills, etc.) means better gear for them.

I mentioned it before. If I could convert Honor into Conquest Points, that would make staying in a losing BG worth something.

I’m just never going to stay in a losing BG, and squander my time, to get nothing of use to me. That’s the best thing of having 4 toons that I enjoy playing. I can always switch to one of them.

This is why deserter needs to be account wide

[Squeektoy-moon-guard (Squeektoy)]

At least when I leave a BG, you get another player who might not mind being stuck in your loss.

LOL

What point is there in reading past this?

[Puntsized-bleeding-hollow (Puntsized)]

How’s the view from that pedestal you’ve put yourself on? who are you to judge other players?

There is a single path to gearing for pvp and that path only pays off if I win. Give me one good reason to stay for a beating that will reward me absolutely nothing of value. How you feel is not a good reason. Your time is no more valuable than mine.

[Squeektoy-moon-guard (Squeektoy)]

There is a single path to gearing for pvp

What point is there in reading past this?

What’s with the horrible and/or outright wrong arguments being made by the pro-quitter side of the argument today?

[Jugajr-emerald-dream (Jugajr)]

In other words, all you care about is the reward, not the actual BG.

[Puntsized-bleeding-hollow (Puntsized)]

Instead of insulting maybe explain how it’s wrong. If pvp offers something other than conquest points in exchange for gear I need to know.

[Puntsized-bleeding-hollow (Puntsized)]

How I choose to play isn’t for you to decide. I like pvp. I don’t like taking a beating for nothing. There is nothing fun about getting stomped.

[Squeektoy-moon-guard (Squeektoy)]

That’s not what you said. You said there is a single path to gearing for PvP and that’s not right at all. The conquest gear is just A path to gearing and it isn’t all that good to begin with. Plenty of better gear can be obtained in simple PvE stuff.

The conquest gear is pretty mid tier at this point and has been the whole expansion.

[Jugajr-emerald-dream (Jugajr)]

Wasn’t telling you how to play. Just an observation about your post.

[Puntsized-bleeding-hollow (Puntsized)]

I specifically said for pvp to eliminate the pve gear. It wasn’t hard to understand.

[Puntsized-bleeding-hollow (Puntsized)]

We can’t all be saints like you.

[Squeektoy-moon-guard (Squeektoy)]

Uh no but ok. Gear is not really all that relevant anyway. I took my fresh sub-300ilvl lock into some bgs yesterday and did a lot better than I thought I would (all losses but I lead my team in some categories). I got “nothing” out of it. Except experience with locks and a pretty good time seeing what I could do.