Give me a break, give anyone the proper ilevel/azerite traits/ trinkets and they can learn whatever “complex” rotation you are talking about in an hour. I won’t argue that the rotations aren’t BIGGER but I completely disagree that they are more complicated. Monkey see monkey do
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What you list as casual friendly in BFA is actually quite bad in terms of gameplay for many (likely unsubbed) casuals.
I mean the Vanilla list sounds like much more fun to me, despite your wording.
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Every single thing they said about pvp is just disgusting. They blatantly do not care about pvp’rs
Like…I just don’t get this mentality. Why do we have to debate or compare modern WoW to Classic anymore? Unless you’re playing modern, the game just isn’t relevant to you anymore. We already know modern and classic are completely different games. With different games means different playerbases who enjoy those games for very specific reasons. There’s a total disconnect between the playerbases here. I’m here because I clearly dislike modern. Straight up I cannot relate to that playerbase.
With that said, why does it matter that a game that isn’t marketed towards gamers such as the classic playerbase care so much about what’s going on in a game that has nothing to do with our playerbase? If you wanna do something constructive, then just tell modern players “hey, I hope your game turns out to be whatever is reflective of the games playerbase’s values” cause we clearly don’t share the same values so anything I have to say in regards of what I think should change in modern is null because my/our values wouldn’t be appreciated by the modern playerbase.
If you do share our values, then hey come play with us, if you share their values play with them. If you value the aspects of both games, then respect the fact they’re completely different and enjoy them as different. Why does it seem like we have to or should share the same values? Play the game you like, it’s that simple. Why is there this dyer need for validation? Both playerbases are right, there is no wrong here.
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The hateraid is strong with you my son
More like irritation that someone like Ion has sitting next to him, not someone like the old dev in the video who clearly gets it, but rather someone who clearly only exists to be a yes man sidekick. Blizzard needs a big dose of fundamental game making truth, and they are not going to get it from that front. The video clearly shows that Ion only thinks in terms of content as a vehicle to distribute loot, rather than something to be designed to be memorable, and Lore serves no purpose beyond nodding and saying “cool” every so often.
The old developer nailed it when he talks about how in vanilla you could get people excited to play by relaying stories of cool stuff you did, and how that really doesn’t happen any more. How many people did not play vanilla, but have heard stories about it that have them excited to play it? In 15 years from now, what will players of BFA be telling tales of?
The game went from highly memorable to highly forgettable.
edit: of course it could just be that I am at the advanced age where his hipster-slob schtick triggers me.
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Lore is the Blizzard Community Manager. His job is to feed Ion questions and nod and smile and serve as a foil. The Q&A sessions aren’t meant to be argumentative. If they were, they’d just call them the Forums.
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Did you watch even a second of the video?
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Im a fan of classic, and of BFA
Why is that i never see threads from BFA players “wow classic is horrible and will fail”
but i keep seeing “Current wow is a failure and classic is the only way to go”
maybe just… enjoy classic and stop trying to make it a competition of “BFA is sh*t, classic is better!”
just enjoy classic, stop sh*tting on something you dont care about
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There’s actually quite a few of those
Most or all, get deleted after being flagged for trolling
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The answer is because of precedence, the development of BFA does not affect classic but the popularity of classic may impact BFA and future wow direction.
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Primarily because they’ve forgotten about us and its hard to scroll back to November in the forum.
Did you even use the search function? I know it’s kinda a sucky search function, but it does work good enough to pop up several that would say otherwise…
If you had of actually Read the OP or even watched 5 min of the video you would quickly realize that you’re out of touch with what’s going on here and your attitude is very much related to why Modern WoW is failing.
It’s less to do with any one thing, and more to do with the hubris and attitude of the structure and culture at Blizzard right now.
Can’t fix anything without dismantling the BS culture that’s crept into Blizzard and destroyed their development process.
Can’t fix anything with out observing ourselves and trying to understand why things are not working.
Do you think Blizzard does this? No, they’re not doing this in any practical way.
Instead of throwing out the things that are systemically failing they’re continuing to implement bandaid after bandaid to try and cover a festering wound that has never been cleaned.
The rot has set in so deep that they can no longer walk on their own two feet, and you’re post here is representative of that attitude.
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In the post you’re referencing, I didn’t mean to imply that Retail gameplay is better than Vanilla.
My point was that over the years Blizzard has made the game much more accessible to casual players than was the case back in Vanilla.
In BFA, if I have 30 minutes I can run a dungeon… any dungeon. At any time of day or night. Or I can do a BG.
In Vanilla, just getting together your group for a dungeon might take an hour, then another 20 minutes to get everyone to the dungeon entrance and another hour to run the dungeon. If you don’t have a large chunk of the evening set aside it’s not happening. If you login when nobody is available it’s not happening. None of that is a problem in BFA.
PVP queue for random BGs in BFA is also very fast owing to cross-server gameplay. Back in Vanilla, prior to cross-server gameplay, the queue on Silver Hand for Alliance often took 1+ hours.
If you have half an hour in BFA, you can even raid and clear raid bosses. Sure it’s LFR tourist mode which is bonehead easy. But at least you get to actually see the fights other than just watching them on Youtube, which is what casuals who couldn’t game enough to raid did back in Vanilla.
In Vanilla, if you were a casual player who could only play for an hour or two at a time there really wasn’t much in the way of structured activities to do once you got to max level. Most dungeons were out. Raiding was out. And if your pvp queues were long, even battlegrounds PVP was probably out.
There is a big cost for this accessibility. The sense of community with cross-server gameplay and dungeon finder is much less. But the fact remains that BFA content is much more accessible for casuals than Vanilla ever was.
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How does BFA not effect classic? Just like if classic is a massive success and live fails, so too could classic fail and live become a massive success…
But again, why cant we just enjoy classic instead of making it a big dick competition?
“watched 5 minutes” its a 2 hour long video, nah im not going to watch it, im going to read the title, and what i can get form the text. which simply says “reveiwing the game state and present development of it”
So… why not talk about just classic? why do you have to constantly compare the two?
enjoy classic, stop taking the piss out of Live, if you feel the need to constantly shut down OTHER things instead of ENJOYING your thing, that usually says “i don’t actually enjoy my thing, i just need to make it so i enjoy other things LESS”
You say “the video is not like that” then right away start doing nothing but talk sht about BFA… So here is what i ask… Why are you on a classic forum, not talking about classic, but instead sht talking BFA? If you enjoy classic enjoy classic and talk Classic, why do you have to just make yourself look bad by making it a competition?
Enjoy classic, ignore Live, stop making it a competition
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Classic already has a defined start and end point. It goes from mc - naxx… the raid sizes, mechanics, tuning, game systems class balance content etc its all set and follows a deterministic path… no matter how popular/unpopular BFA becomes it doesn’t filter back to classic.
On the other hand if classic is super popular aspects or influences of it might find there way into BFA, the lack of convenience, instant gratification or other vanilla-esque concepts might start to show up in the design.
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People have been for years, they’ve also been quitting. WoW has what maybe at best a third the population it did going into WoD when they started with the whole attitude of you’ll take what we give you and like it?
And if you go to general discussion you will still see threads like that from time to time, they’re just decreasing in frequency as more and more people quit because of the attitude expressed in this video.
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Yet another who did not actually watch the video. ![:roll_eyes:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/roll_eyes.png?v=6" ":roll_eyes:")
It dawned on me last night, that the “clarity” spoken of by blizzard of late is surely the metric by which Ion and his trusty Lore measure something to be fun, and how well it distributes loot. The video shows that “many people doing” equates to “fun” in the minds of those steering the bus, rather than actual memorable, engaging, compelling and entertaining design.
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Classic is not finite, im sure from you being on these forums you have seen the MANY people requesting
Wow 2.0 where they make more expansions off classic, and try to stay close
Wow back in time, where they release TBC then WOTLK etc
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