Bfa is at 8.2. How do we feel about surv hunter

Community General Discussion
61

While I believe that Legion Surv was 100x better, I am still really enjoying the spec. The AoE is very statisfying, but I wish the single target would be a little more engaging. I also wish there was more melee attacks.

I wish the spell that converts mongoose to range would be a more offensive ability. I like the utility it provides, but I kind of wish that it provided some good dps buffs too so you could have a phase where you switch to range for increased damage for a few seconds. Would be fun I think.

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So, one more upside with introducing that 4th spec option for the Hunter class,
Hint :slight_smile: : We need range Survival Hunters back - #457 by Ghorak-laughing-skull
is that they can let Marksmanship focus on what it’s actually meant to be. The ranger/sniper with strong hits and burst damage.

As well as adding in more nuances that cater towards the initial fantasy of the current Survival spec. Melee combat + pet coordination.

When I first saw the new design of the MSV spec with the Alpha/Beta of BfA. My initial thoughts were basically, why are they copying over stuff from other specs?

Since then, I’ve thought of what things I would prefer for the MSV spec to have(no, not reverting it to ranged). Like below:

Any abilities or talents not mentioned below, they can stay as they are IMO.

-Core Abilities-

  • Remove Kill Command.

  • Rework Raptor Strike to be the new focus builder(it can work the same as Kill Command did for the spec, just melee-based, and it shouldn’t have a cooldown).

  • Drag out Mongoose Bite to become the main Spender instead of Raptor Strike.

  • Rework Serpent Sting into a mid-range CD.
    Instead of you, firing a poison tipped arrow at your target, now, when you activate this ability, you coat your melee weapon(s) in snake venom for a short period.
    Let’s say the ability has a 30 sec CD. The duration could be something like 15-20 seconds.
    The venom itself, could work much like the old Exotic Ammunitions-venom we had in WoD. Where your auto shots(here, it would instead be melee auto attacks), they would inflict that venom on the target.
    The damaging effect would stack with every attack.

  • Wildfire Bomb can pretty much stay as it is. Although perhaps changing it into an actual bomb with a splash effect rather than being designed with a cone in mind would be better.
    No matter the design here, throwing a bomb in front of yourself does not make sense but at least the splash design allows for less annoyance.

-Talents-

  • Remove the talent, Alpha Predator(no longer needed).

  • Put the last tier talent, Birds of Prey in the place of Alpha Predator.

  • Talent: Viper’s Venom, could be reworked so that if it’s chosen, it causes your new Snake Venom ability, it causes the venom to spread more quickly(stack up higher with every attack).
    As well as adding a chance for you to extend it’s duration on the target(s) beyond the default time(up to a set max).
    Essentially, this could allow you to keep that DoT up permanently.

  • Hydra’s Bite. This would now just allow you to hit 3 targets at once with your Snake Venom buff that you use on your weapon(s).

  • Bloodseeker, could work the same, just that it would involve Raptor Strike instead of Kill Command.

  • Tip of the Spear, can be renamed Sharpened Edges.
    Now, when picked, as you would have Mongoose Bite baseline. This talent could be reworked to allow you to stack Mongoose Fury up faster and/or allow you to extend the duration of the buff.

  • We have a free spot for a talent option in the place of Mongoose Bite.
    This could be fun
    New talent called Mean Duo (I love that name!).
    What it would do, is this:
    Each time you hit an enemy target with an ability, there’s a high chance that this will cause your pet’s next Basic Attack(Bite, Claw, Smack) to be a guaranteed critical strike.
    Each time your pet hits with a Basic Attack, there’s a high chance that you gain this effect as well.
    I like the synergy!

  • Wildfire Infusion might have to change a bit in it’s design to better fit the new core makeup of the spec. But still, mostly, I think it’s the Pheromone Bomb infusion that needs to change. Perhaps into something that benefits your Mongoose Bite?

And last but not least!

  • In the place of the talent Birds of Prey(that was moved to the first row). I would like to put in a new talent. Some of you might remember the talent: Way of the Mok’Nathal. Explanation follows.
    (And no, I don’t intend to bring that specific talent design back).
    What I want, is this:
    A LOT of players think of the current MSV spec as a visualization of us playing as Rexxar.
    The famed Hunter from Draenor that fights with 2 1-handed axes.
    So…what if a talent that you call Way of the Mok’Nathal, would do just that? Allow you to equip 2 1-handed weapons.
    All your melee attacks(and abilities) would now be executed with those 2 weapons instead of a 2-hander.

As for tuning…Now, you would have to tune the 1h-concept to be on par with the 2 other talents on the same talent row, instead of trying to tune it as a baseline option for players choosing between using a 2-hander or 2 1-handers.
I know it’s not as simple as this, but still, more simple than the alternative.

Considering the amount of players that would want to play with 1-handed weapons. I’d say this would be worth it.

63

Bad decision, and speaking as a class that has been redesigned, class redesigns need to be reverted.

Make Survival Ranged Again.
Give Fury the Old Enrage Back.
etc.

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64

Someone at blizz missed the memo that “lol hunter so dumb he forgot to buy ammo! Look at the scrub bonking ragnaros with his staff!” Was a joke at the expense of bad hunters who didn’t know how to play their class.

They took the meme of the dumb hunter and made it into a spec for some reason. So since it was a joke to begin with, the spec is also seen as a joke that nobody wants to play “noob hunter” spec.

The fact that there is already a range dps shortage makes it even worse that they killed surv, we are up to our eyeballs in melee! How about adding some classes that can use guns rather than doing dumb stuff like making a hunter melee only?

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65

Yep same here, my main has been a melee hunter ever since they implemented it and I love it.

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66

That’s for sure

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67

That by definition means that you want your class to be redesigned again?

Why are they bad decisions btw? Please elaborate.

Agreed, though it doesn’t have to be a case of “either-or”. They deleted the old ranged spec in favor of the new melee’ish design. A lot of hunters we’re angry about that(and still are).
If they were to go back on that and remove the melee’ish spec in favor of giving us an updated version of the ranged DoT-spec, this would make a lot of current hunters, that like having a melee-option, angry.

How can we avoid the above? A 4th spec is the only option.
And considering the unique playstyle an updated version of that past ranged spec would provide(with the philosophies of today), I’d say it’s more than justified to bring in that 4th option.

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Considering I hate the modern iteration of it? Sure, why not. I’d call it a reversion, though.

Changing Fury’s enrage mechanic, for example, severed the spec’s continuity to its older iterations, and simplified the spec to a degree where it’s no longer enjoyable. It changed the pace, and feel of the spec.

That’s a single mechanic. I don’t know how SV hunters or Demo locks are dealing with what’s been done to them.

That’s fine. Players who have mained their classes, in some cases since Vanilla, shouldn’t have their classes demolished and rebuilt into something else to please a group of people that weren’t on the class prior.

4th specs might be better, but barring that, if anyone deserves to be left out in the cold, it’s the slim minority of people that enjoy the modern redesigns. They don’t have the time put in to give priority to their views.

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69

I was disappointed when I learned duel wielding one handed swords was not an option like it was back in Cata.

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Fair enough. Though this is really what the big problem is.

There are still A LOT of players in this game. And we are all different in terms of personal preferences. Our wants and needs.

Ah, you meant decisions on warrior changes specifically. Sorry, misunderstanding.

I wouldn’t say that I know anything about most other classes beyond Hunters.
Heck, I haven’t played the current Survival spec since the Alpha/Beta of BfA.
My suggestions for that, are based on my experience from back then, along with what I imagine a melee-version of the spec could look like. As opposed to the current spec that tries to be both ranged and melee.

Agreed. If they(devs) wanted to add in a completely new playstyle to a class. It should be done through additional spec options rather than being replacements to existing ones.

If they lacked a vision for what the old ranged Survival should have looked like with a spec-identity overhaul, I believe a lot of us back then could’ve answered that for them.

While I see where you’re coming from, I would still refer to my answer above.
I will never suggest deleting a spec in favor of giving us back an old one. Purely because there will always be those that you upset when doing so.

Especially when there is a much better solution.
I cannot speak for warriors ofc. I don’t play as one and haven’t done so since early TBC.

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Melee Survival seems like a pet project from someone on the development team with enough clout to force their bad idea on everyone else. It was the epitome of a bunch of “wouldn’t it be cool if…” that felt like it was tossed together by someone who wouldn’t listen to any criticism of their Good Idea™.

Yeah, they’ve put a lot more work into it since Legion to try and make it work, but its initial version was embarrassingly slapdash. Oh he uses traps, oh he works as one with his pets (if only there was already a spec for that), oh he’s also a… bloodthirsty berserker? Etc.

They got rid of one of the most unique specs in the game. They needed to knock it out of the park with their replacement to get people back on board, and instead they hit themselves with their own bat.

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72

Yes it is controversial because it is a shameless lie and you know it.

“Outside of 1 to 1/2 expansions” is already a ridiculous condition. That’s three whole years and you’re acting like it’s nothing, especially when the SV as we knew it (i.e. the one with explosive shot) lasted 8 years so it was already almost half of the time.

Never mind the fact that it wasn’t even that short a time. MM was the lowest-represented spec from Dragon Soul all the way up until HFC came out (with pre-hotfix HM being an exception), so that’s a period of about 3.5 years on its own where SV was definitely not the bottom spec (hell, it was the top spec a few times within that timeframe). Add to that the fact that SV was the go-to progression spec of Tier 11 (BoT/BWD/Tot4W) and Tier 8 (Ulduar), which adds up to almost a year. At this point you are already beyond the point of half of the 8 years in which SV had Explosive Shot, so you’re already badly wrong. Then consider the fact that SV wasn’t necessarily the bottom spec even when it wasn’t #1. For example, BM was bottom-of-the-barrel after 3.0.8 in Tier 7 of WotLK.

You’re literally looking at SV being a competitive spec, representation wise, for most of its tenure as an independent DPS spec. If you wqant to add Vanilla and BC to that, SV became a solid raiding spec towards the end of Vanilla with agi scaling and higher gear level, and SV was second-best throughout BC due to Expose Weakness.

Once again, HFC was the ONLY period in WoW’s history when ranged SV was bottom-of-the-barrel and abandoned. And it was likely purposefully done to prepare for melee SV.

So, as per usual, this is just projection from a desperate melee fanboy intended to try to make melee SV, a spec that has ACTUALLY had the lowest representation for its entire tenure (except Uldir), look better.

It’s pretty disappointing how you feel so confident in lying to everyone in every thread you post in. Weren’t you taught any better when you were young or is that ongoing?

Actual Survival Hunter mains have been discussing the lack of direction of the theme of BFA Survival. Try harder.

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73

Tldr
Ok sorry for maybe three years of the games 15 year existence, SV wasn’t a third tier spec. I guess that’s better?

I’m never talking about pve, not sure why you keep bringing it up.

Yea I always am talking about condensing MSV, it’s great but it’s new, and can always be better.

Thanks for the fun Bepples, you’re deluded, and have no idea what you’re talking about, but you’re always good for a laugh.

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If this is referring to melee SV, yes.

It’s a PvE focused game and there are many times more players doing the PvE content sooooooo

Anyway, SV was still pretty good in PvP, but it was often held back in rated arena because Black Arrow could be dispelled. Once there was a dispel protection on Black Arrow (in WoD the CD reset when it was dispelled) SV dominated the Hunter PvP scene for that whole expansion, far moreso than SV’s lead today. It was still a solid spec in all forms of PvP before that, though, especially in battlegrounds.

Current SV is basically an arena one-trick-pony.

It can be better by making it ranged.

The major reason for the identity being so inconsistent is because it depends on Beast Mastery’s identity. I know it’s hard for Warrior rerolls looking for a 3rd Warrior DPS spec like you, but Hunters are defined by the ranged weapon and the pet, meaning if you’re missing one you depend a lot more on the other. This leads to the situation where SV NEEDS to have close interaction with the pet, which means it has to steal abilities from BM. If it were ranged, it wouldn’t have this problem.

Just another reason why ranged SV was a better spec.

Projection.

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75

Been a while since I’ve touched my hunter…

But it should have been a 4th spec.

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Lmao you are a riot.

No, in PvP SV was behind MM or BM for all but 2 maybe 3 seasons. Anyone saying otherwise is lying or wrong.

I don’t care what you think the game is focused about, I PvP. And in PvP RSV was never great and certainly never had any real identity.

Lol saying MSV is a “one trick pony”, just shows how little you want understand the spec.

Yea I also play Warrior, not sure why you keep bringing that up… Wish my warrior had the utility of SV though, that’s for sure.

Keep dwelling on an extinct spec, it seems to be doing wonders for your mental health.

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feels like it needs to more damage Also outside of procs i feel starved for focus.

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I don’t know this because, unlike for raids, I don’t have data from before 2013. What I do see is a spec that held up in MoP but struggled v.s. MM, followed by WoD where it dominated the Hunter PvP scene for the whole expansion. I have no idea what it looked like before 2013 and frankly I’m not inclined to trust you on this because you have a habit of a) speaking from a position of assumed authority where you have no prior knowledge and b) being a liar.

I DO know that in MoP Survival was held back in Arenas because Black Arrow could be dispelled. So you are basically trying to use that as a damning indictment against ranged SV becuase… in one expansion, in a specific area of just part of the game (rated PvP arenas) the spec came up short due to one mechanical shortcoming? So it’s meant to be a bad spec regardless of the many thousands of Hunters playing it in other areas of the game including raiding (you know, the primary focus of the game) the couple hundred or so Hunters in arenas didn’t all play it? That’s nuts.

And I don’t care about your PvP.

Firstly, raiding is absolutely the primary focus. That’s where most of the development time and attention is going and that’s where most of the end-game players are.

Secondly, you don’t even do rated PvP. You just do random BGs. I also do random BGs. So what? Survival was fine there in MoP and absolutely godlike in WoD so everything you’re saying is already proven false. You know what’s automatically worse in BGs especially 40v40? Melee. Put it this way: as Marksmanship, people would be fine with me having the ancient artifact in Ashran. I’ve already done so. Now try getting away with using it as Survival. Get back to me and tell me how that goes for you.

It’s underrepresented and uninteresting in every area of the game except for arenas. Arenas are the only content where it can be said to “excel”, and even there it depends on specific comps. It’s a one-trick pony. You’re saying ranged SV was bad because in expansions before WoD it was subpar in rated arenas despite being good everywhere else while praising melee SV for being good in rated arenas despite being subpar everywhere else. Despite being someone who never does rated arenas. I would say the cognitive dissonance is unbelievable but at this point it’s 100% par for the course from you.

I bring it up because that’s evidently where your priorities lie. You want a Hunter spec that lacks any of the aspects that actually make it a Hunter.

Also, I’m not sure why you’re so enamoured with SV considering both Warrior DPS specs are above SV in rated PvP representation.

IDK, I’m not the one being revisionist and dishonest all the time. I think people who are like that are the ones who aren’t in a good mental state.

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79

Yikes wall of text. Tldr

Whatever champ fight you’re fight…
Keep White Knighting a dead third tier spec.

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They(the devs) aren’t going to revert MSV to the previous ranged DoT-spec we had before.
I just cannot see that happening ever. When they removed that previous spec in favor of MSV, it was a big enough mess in itself.
Then with BfA, they overhauled it again as people weren’t happy with the first iteration.
But they still clearly want it to be a melee-spec. Why would they then 1 expansion later overhaul it again/revert it to the old ranged DoT-spec we had prior?

There is little use in us continuously asking it to be reverted. It’s much more likely that we can convince them to give us a 4th spec.

• They can ofc do nothing, but IMO, this would be a huge misstake. That DoT-spec did have a unique identity/feel to it, no matter what Kindwolf says.

• They could revert MSV into RSV, but that would upset many current players who want that melee-spec.

• They could add in the actual core abilities from the old SV into MM talents. Though again, that will probably upset many players who want MM to be the sniper spec with strong hits + burst. Besides, that wouldn’t be enough to give us a proper version of the old SV.

• They have added a 4th spec to a class in the past. It was done for druids, due to several reasons that had a negative impact on Feral at the time.

• People say that it’s not justified to add a 4th spec to the hunter class. But…it is.
-A lot of players want that spec back.
-The spec had a unique theme that can be built on even more with todays design philosophies.
-They didn’t just remove an old hunter spec when they changed it into melee. They also removed 1 ranged spec. If anything, we should have more ranged spec options to play with! Not less…

What would the argument against adding that 4th spec to the class?
• It would take a lot of time to create/design as well as tune and maintain that extra spec?

Sure, this is the case with all new specs.

But if it brings something new and interesting to the table. Something that’s currently missing. Something that so many players want? Why not?