I love disc the way it is now and feel the spec tree is almost there, we do need some love for M+. Though I only did major content in MoP and now SL, how was disc back in WoD? I remember playing and being so undertuned (or it was just me being bad). Is this the era of plea? You can link your discussion too if you have, I’d love to read. (I am following this post since first day but I don’t remember your discussion)
I have done just that. I just put it in the best place for blizzard to look. They often don’t check out the class forums.
Never once have I ever seen or heard a Blizzard dev make a post on the Priest class forum.
So I use this thread to toss out ideas and get feedback on it if any and take that in and adjust accordingly which I have with both my ideas and others and have incorporated those changes into what I think would both appease a lot of wants and desires and make the priest class better overall.
The issue that starts these tangents is typically NOT related to my ideas but my person / character in suggesting I don’t know what I am talking about or I need to play the current game or other BS like that. I mentioned before that is not something I will let pass as that’s just saying “You are only allowed to talk about something if you have the proper authority to do so” which I have a MASSIVE problem with.
Synonyms for rarely:
Barely, hardly, almost never.
You can argue about role or anything, but as rare you are so wrong…
Check the top of the thread. You are # 1 poster. And by a large magin…
Yes… in the context of priority. Not in APM. I said this.
If SW:P reduced damage done by the target by x mount (Like I have included in my class tree) THEN that would move it up on a higher priority button because it directly achieves the goal of damage prevention / healing required.
Doing damage faster is an indirect impact to your healing, but that is not the primary reason why as a Holy priest you are brought for.
I am aware.
But if you want to check out the reason WHY I am the top poster, it is because a lot of people have things to say about what I say and it typically comes from a better then thou attitude.
This is why I stated before that I rather my IDEAS are discussed if at all instead of the “Person” behind the ideas. Because any statement / idea regardless who says it should be taken at face value, it should not have a bias slant. That just becomes a disingenuous response which I have gotten a LOT on this thread.
So I have a choice to attempt to pull the conversation back on topic or let the delusion continue in poisoning the well because some people don’t want to have an honest discussion about something said, instead they want to talk about the person and their personal choice. That is what created so many of my responses… and typically from the same people with the same attempts to derail the conversation into that personal matter.
Instead of arguing the semantics, let’s discuss the topic at hand.
One of the problems with the Priest class tree, and the Priest class in general, is that there are no spells shared across the entire class by means of the win conditions of the specs. Sure Holy can press Shadow Word: Pain, but it is not incentivized to do so by its spec’s mechanics. Sure Shadow can press Flash Heal, but it is not incentivized to do so by its spec’s mechanics.
Therefore any talents which enhance a baseline Priest spell will, by this merit, be effectively useless for at least one spec. And talents like those are a pervasive problem in the existing Priest class tree.
10 Likes
I feel a lot of it can be fixed by having talents in the class tree interact with different spells though. Like for example: Mind flay improvments mixed in with smite improvments.
Not saying all our problems can be fixed by this, but it could be part of the sollution I feel
Another thing I’ve been thinkering about for disc…
I feel that Light’s wrath and Mindgames kind of cover the same utility, in that it’s a strong damage dealer that you’d cast during your ramp for a big burst healing. Mindgames covers for more scenarios in m+ and pvp as well, but I feel like Light’s wrath kind of lose it’s meaningfulness a bit.
Don’t get me wrong, I love both spells, but I feel like they overlap a bit, at least for raiding 
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I can’t point to a specific post, since Zyld was a prolific troll poster on their demon hunter about WoD disc and they did it through like 20 different threads.
IMO WoD and late MoP disc were overpowered for the same reasons, mostly. They prevented an incredibly high amount of damage and had a playstyle so simple that pretty much any player could put out the throughput needed for a mythic raid. It created a lot of disdain from other healers - and was especially overpowered in 10 mans (the most popular raid format of the time) to the point Disc solo healed mythic end bosses. And when a healer who’s primary healing method is absorbs can solo heal a boss, having another healer (as 10 mans typically had 2), meant that the other healer pretty much wasn’t ever healing because the damage was absorbed.
The problem did extend to the 25 mans - Disc was still incredibly powerful there, but 25 mans were definitely harder so they weren’t the only healer necessary. Still put out a ton of healing with much lower effort and could completely nullify scary raid mechanics via PW:S and Spirit Shell PoH spam. Spirit shell was also on a 1 min cooldown, so it was fairly easy to cover pretty much any mechanic a fight threw at you with 3 buttons while having atonement smart healing in the background. Essentially Disc was playing fairly similar to Holy Priest, but they were a significantly more powerful holy priest.
You can find a lot of discussions about how easy disc was from back in the day if you go and look for em.
In the end, Blizz intentionally moved on from absorb-based healing and reworked Disc entirely to have a totally new theme, and removed almost all the absorbs Pally could put out at the same time. It was very odd to see Spirit Shell come back in SLands, and it wasn’t a surprise to most Discs late in beta that it was going to ruin the spec when it was dominating the raid testing and rather than address it in the first set of nerfs, Blizz lowered Disc’s overall throughput instead. It still launched overpowered, and got several nerfs in a row, but Disc got zero buffs to compensate the losses it saw in beta. 
I know many people who are very, very salty about all the aura nerfs Disc has now, but it seems blizz doesn’t want to address them.
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I’d sure as hell would like to see the auras nerfs removed so that we can start balancing on a clean slate again…
LOL I could feel his pain haha
Just fyi: you’ve made 240 posts in this thread alone which blows away the post count for second place at around 135 held by Thelarius and third place of 116 posts by Capslockfury. Zyldamyr has 85 posts currently.
That’s 576 posts for only 4 people on a thread with 1573 replies.
It’s a bit much.
6 Likes
Nothing really new on the whole video in terms of feedback. Although, his suggestion to make SN consume all your insanity and make damage scale accordingly would be an ok solution.
HE actually has more than that because he was posting on his dh at the beginning.
This has already been said a few times today, we’re trying to get back on feedback on actually trees. No need to point this out again, a couple of us are trying focus on the topic so far, don’t make it derail again 
tyvm
Agreed.
It just happens to coincide that they are the main ones involved in causing these side rants over something that should be more of an opinion.
I have never tried to take topics off the rails, I have only either joined in a bit or got dragged into it.
Plenty of times I simply add feedback in the form of an idea and then I get dragged into some massive back and forth over an opinion / view of the topic instead of discussing the idea itself.
Basically, if you have a difference of opinion, it doesn’t make you any lesser than any other… but that is not what I was constantly met with. So I pushed back and here we are.
Also, I tend to respond 1 post per response. Where others make several points in 1 post. So my posting count is a bit more inflated.
I mean, I don’t know what you would like me to do about it lol. I would say I would stop posting, but that would be a false truth.
My god you’re so dense… 
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Do you disagree?
Prove me wrong. Show me how I started things.
Ill do the same for you.
You really want to go down this road?
And here we go again. This is not a private text thread. Goodness.
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Yep.
And just to be clear, the power didn’t come from HPS. I think even in Mists Disc’s HPS relative to other healers wasn’t anything special. The power came from having a much larger window to do your necessary healing in. A straight throughput healer might have five seconds to get the raid back up after a hit, but a Disc Priest had that plus at least an extra fifteen from Spirit Shell or DAs that could be rolled forever.
Plus you had some fights like H Malkorok where having Disc was extra beneficial. Throughput healer could cap shields faster but those shields weren’t sufficient to block all damage. Disc took longer to get the encounter shields back up to green but got to simultaneously roll up DA. When I had to go Shadow on that fight, my guild had much more of a struggle than when I got to heal it as Disc.
That said, and I think I’ve said this before, I think absorbs could be added to the tree, but they need to be kept on a leash. Like Luminous Barrier was fine (not as a replacement for PW:B though), Rapture is fine, Spirit Shell in nearly every incarnation has not been, DA with spammable, party restricted PoH was not, random incidental DAs from crit heals were fine, etc. As a general rule, I think the key is that nothing should be able to stack with itself, and if it can it shouldn’t be consistent/strong or have some other kind of drawback.
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I’d like to discuss baseline and starting nodes as I feel we could get some improvments from revisiting that topic.
PoM
I feel this should be moved back to it’s rightful place… in the holy tree. (With its whole branch on the top/left)
I know some are happy to see this ability available for disc but it doesn’t fit the disc playstyle anymore.
It overlaps with pw:shield as a pre-pull option and we can assume it would create mostly overhealing.
For the ‘on the move’ option. Disc has decent options on the move with pw:shield (with or without rapture), penance and dots.
Holy word chastice
Talk about an ability that all priest would want to spend talent points on. I feel this should become holy starting node. This would remove the need for psychic horror in shadow tree if we bring censure over.
As with all holy words. Only holy gets the full benefits with cd reduction though. This should remain a holy-only thing.
Edit: I’m assuming shadow can cast holy spells without opting out of shadow form. That’s an old/archaic thing that’s just constraining our ability to make the 3 specs mesh better together…
Power word:Shield
Disc shouldn’t get a free point in their talent tree. Even as a disc main, this is unfair toward any other spec in the game to get 1 more free point.
A holy word for holy. Disc ahould start with power word. What better hability to put there than pw:shield. No need for the useless shield if you don’t want it anymore. But the tree should allow for enough free choice when you’ve selected your base throughput so that you can still pick it for the extra Survivability + body and soul.
Shadow word: death
I feel sw:death is a bit lackluster for healers. It’s a decent execute I guess but as a healer you can’t really benefit from it without Death and madness under it. We should bring this over so that all priests can really benefit from sw:death. (If disc needs to part ways with Twilight Empowerment, so be it)
Before I move on the the spec trees, let’s talk about smite.
Make smite a light&shadow ability so that it stays the base ability for all our specs. Mind flay needs to go. This will enable so much more interactions within our class tree and make it so much easier for it to be a more decent version of itself.
holy tree starting node
Heal makes sense. I honnestly would have liked to suggest something else but I can’t. There isn’t really anything that makes more sense except maybe PoM.
Disc tree starting node
I’m unsure if we should get Atonement baseline. But if it does make sense, then we should have penance there. That’s the central piece of disc toolkit.
Shadow tree starting node
If we can spend insanity at the level we get the tree, then it should be Devouring plague. Otherwise Vampiric touch ofc.
Let’s keep it at that for now. What do you guys think?
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