Exactly. So many of these posts are like screaming into the void if we don’t have a dev.
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alot of it is like wish fulfillment in hopes that it gets noticed and maybe an iota of an idea gets implemented.
ill give it some of the ideas are kinda cool. but its hard when the foundation of our class tree is legit in a previous era. as far as the design of the tree’s has evolved looking back at druid and dk and seeing where warlock shammy warrior are currently
It’s also hard when the new dev is looking at thread with over 1500 posts. No way he/she/XXX is going to read all this.
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yea this thread got a touch derailed awhile ago.
Power Word: Shield is an absorb. From the beginning it has been the defining button for that purpose. So why not have a window of time where it becomes that again. Along with all the other absorbs. Then it has the damage reduction aspect as a bonus.
When I played Disc, I liked using Shadow Covenant. But it had a cooldown so I was limited in its use. So it would be cool to have a super charge window to lean more into that play style.
You do understand that these choices are choices for gameplay styles. They are not meant to be required. They are just meant to change up your approach to the way you play.
Basically the approach I took was to lean into the following styles of play.
- Better Absorbs / Damage reduction
- More / Auto absorbs
- Holy spells double dipping to get shadow spell bonus effects
- Cooldown flow management
That’s what rapture does. You really need to look at the slec my dude… 
The intent was that you have another window to make absorbs more powerful. But what about this instead…
-
Archangel: Fate
While under the effects of Archangel, your absorb effects last twice as long and 20% of all Holy damage or healing you do adds to the absorb amount while it lasts
If Archangel is known, also grant 15% healing done and instantly restores 5% mana.
OR
-
Archangel: Rapture
While under the effects of Archangel, Rapture cools down 200% faster and your absorb spells last 100% longer.
If Archangel is known, also grant 15% healing done and instantly restores 5% mana.
Look. You might want to create your thread at this point. We’re honnestly derailing this thread…
Edit: thread name: New class Archangel
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Dragonflight Priest Talent Tree Feedback Thread
^ That is the name of the thread.
I am providing feedback directly related to the talent trees.
It just so happens that the talent trees are severely in need of some help.
If you no longer wish to engage with my ideas, you have the option to walk away and I will just continue on with my ideas without your feedback.
But I am not going to stop.
Your choice.
Edit:
Because honestly, from the feedback you give… the way you give it. All that comes across is that you are looking for a reason to wave it away and discount the ideas without even trying to engage and make them better overall.
If that’s what you want then that’s what you want, just don’t complain if things take a turn in a direction you don’t agree with because you just wanted to let things be… I made that mistake going into Legion, I am not repeating that again. So I am making my voice and ideas known.
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Well. I tried… But it returns to my innitial comment on your suggestions. You need to play current priest. Because you actually have little to no idea how current priest plays and it shows in your suggestions… and seriously, uour ideas for holy/disc are bad. I’m sorry to say that but your lack of knowledge for the two specs really shows in your suggestions and in your class tree.
Of course you’re free to continue. I’m not trying to silence you or anything.
I honnestly tried to give honnest feedback and gave a good look to your trees but I honnestly don’t agree with your take on priest and we’ll just agree to disagree I guess 
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2 points…
- I mentioned that I would do a disservice to Holy and Discipline… I did mention this.
But despite that, I am willing to engage and dive into it and see what comes of it. - You are now backtracking on what you previously said about the class tree?
You admitted that the current DF class tree is bad multiple times. You also had a lot of positive things to say on my take on the class tree.
You can have your opinion all you like and so can I. But for you to say…
That is YOUR opinion, nothing more.
Obviously you think the current direction of the way you enjoy the game is fine to the point where nothing major should change. But just because someone has a difference of opinion does not mean they “have a lack of knowledge”. I know what a PRIEST is at a core level. The specifics that involved Holy and Disc I just frankly never got into them that deep because that’s just not the way I enjoy playing the game. But that does not invalidate my core understanding of what a Priest is.
I really shouldn’t have to say this but…
The current direction the priest is at and until we hear any different… is going to end up… is reason enough to show that something is WRONG with the class.
So for me to provide my input, regardless of how it affects the “current” way the class and specs are at… should not in any way require “current understandings” because look at where we are at… clearly its not working.
yes you did
no no, I’m not. The current official class tree is bad. Yours have a few good ideas, other ideas I don’t agree with lots of fan service too, which isn’t necessarily bad.
That’s also true, but look at it this way. You’re an oldschool shadow priest. I’ve picked up priest pre-shadowlands. I’ve always had a priest alt but the old priest never was appealing to me. So we have different takes on what is a fun priest is really all this is. Your ideas don’t incorporate the “new” priest well, it’s trying to “revert” a bit in how it was when you liked it.
Also, the two healers specs are really different and it is one of the things that make our class so cool to play.
The current priest in shadowlands is fun. I don’t like shadow so much in aoe scenarios but it is what it is…
For DF, we agree that a lot of work is needed.
Like I said, you’re free to continue with your suggestions, but I’m not too interested in them because I like modern/retail priest and have 0 interest in classic priest. Bringing old spells could be super fun and work well, but it doesn’t mean that it works just because we had them at some point in time.
Well, you do you my friend the point is that if you want to speak for the players with your ideas, you need to bring current and old together, and I feel it’s a bit hard to do that if you don’t understand “current”…
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But also a reason why the class tree is in the terrible state it is in.
all 3 specs are so unique that they have barely anything that holds them together.
Thus why I am trying so hard to create some common ground that all 3 specs can rally behind and build onto.
I understand enough to create a bridge. I don’t need to know the intricacies of each spec to accomplish that.
In fact, I truly believe that anyone that is only focused on what is “current” has a bias opinion on an era of WoW that is now shifting from a “Spec” focus to what it was prior when it was more a “class” focus. THAT is something we all need to accept and then work towards a new era with that in mind. Doing otherwise is just dragging the feet of the class and by extension the specs and will show just as much on DF release.
The fact is that we have a class tree that should work well with each spec it supports. It currently does not do that. We have to accept that SOME concessions will need to happen in order to have an overall successful class.
I prefer unique specs. Other classes have unique specs even if they share the same roles so I don’t see why priests cannot work.
I’m not focusing on current. But I like current and I want to have at least as much fun with what’s coming.
I agree, but I’m not willing to sacrifice one of our specs.
The reason being… we use different spells almost entirely.
That means we have little options to “bridge the gap” between each spec with similar spells.
- Holy: Primary spell usage is friendly healing spells. Uses Mana.
- Discipline: Primary spell usage is offensive Holy with a mix of some Shadow spells. Uses Mana.
- Shadow: Primary spell usage is offensive Shadow spells. Uses Insanity, not mana.
Between all 3 of the specs, each one uses its on suite of spells that the other does not.
Similar spells we all have access too…
- Smite - Shadow wont use.
- Flash Heal - Shadow can use but not a primary spell.
- Power Word: Shield - Sucks for Shadow and Holy, only good for disc because disc can empower it with things like Rapture.
- Mind Blast - Holy wont use that often if at all.
- Shadow Word: Pain - Holy wont use that often.
- Shadow Word: Death - Actually a decent one that can find use for all 3 specs.
Meaning the class tree results in what you currently see on DF thus far. Most of the useful talents are the utility talents, the rest are just multiple versions changing the same spell that you either get on the class tree itself or a spell that not all 3 specs use regularly.
This is even further exasperated when it comes to our various cooldowns.
- Mages all have Timewarp & Ice block etc…
- Paladin all have Divine Shield and Avenging Wrath etc…
Point being, all 3 specs are so disconnected and have very little similar spells to use.
So my idea is to rally being the “Angelic” theme to bridge the gap with at least cooldowns as I don’t think we will be changing much when it comes to rotational abilities.
This is not even an issue. I’m disappointed that blizz hasn’t implemented this in the first place…
Have shadow replace Smite with Mind Flay baseline. All talents that affect smite affect mind flay in a similar fation. Talents options are now available for all 3 specs
Idem, have disc/shadow replace this baseline with Shadowmend, idem for talents that boost shadowmend/flash heal.
I agree that something needs to be done here. I feel this should be the starting pick for disc in the base tree simply for that reason. It does feel bad that holy/shadow don’t have a use for it though.
Baseline spell, have holy replace this with chastise baseline. Same principle again.
Holy uses that for damage right now when they have downtime from healing.
This is all utility…
To be fair, there is a lot more that can be approched this way.
Holy nova/Mind sear could have talents that share utility/strenght boost as well. Not necessarily by being baseline…
You’re splitting voidform in your shadow tree with a choice node, why don’t we have choice nodes for shadow/holy in our class tree?
Just a few examples on top of my head:
- Holy Nova/Mind Sear
- Fade/Improved Fade/Dispersion
- VE/Desperate Prayer
- MindBender/Symbol of hope
Not saying any of this should be kept in their current form in the game, they can be adapted to fit with their “pared spell”
Our class tree has huge potential in my opinion by mixing holy/shadow nodes here and there. Don’t have to have a “left side is holy, right is shadow” split the tree by themes, not by shadow/light. Mix the sh*t out of it!
Current tree is just lazy design and I don’t accept :
That’s bullsh*t, sorry. Everything listed above here share similar theme/utility…
its actually our best way to pop exposives and should be applied as often as possible to maximize damage
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Everything you mentioned have either already been tried and failed or will not work at all as those combinations are just not comparable at all.
I won’t address every point, but a couple of the extreme ones.
Shadow having Shadowmend is the worst idea ever. It first made it into one of the 1st iterations in Wrath as the finial talent to be later replaced by Dispersion.
As shadow, your primary spell school is shadow. But that means you can easily be locked out and have nothing to do but cast PW:Shield. This is a MASSIVE problem in PvP. As for PvE you should be doing damage and healing from it as has been since the beginning. This is why Vampiric Embrace was a thing and kicked off the leeching via damage theme.
Mindbender/Symbol of hope is not a choice. No reason to take symbol of hope as it is with a long cooldown and a channel that any movement or spell lockout will cancel the effect. So this is a horrible idea.
Fade / Dispersion is not a choice. Those are 2 completely different abilities with massive differences where Fade would basically be worthless compared to Dispersion and Dispersion for Disc or Holy would be stupid overpowered in PvP.
The rest follow similar results.
What you are trying to do is just make a shadow utility tree on top of a healing utility tree and have switch talents between them. But your not taking into consideration the massive imbalances that will affect in many areas of the game, primarily in PvP.
Not to mention that this goes against the entire reason for the class tree.
You seem to just want a clear separation with vaguely similar abilities in the class tree and call it a day. But what you will end up if going the route you take is that there is a clear winner for every pick and it won’t be a choice at all as well as screw up both any type of lore for each spec and how and why it does what it does and break all kinds of aspects of the game.
Now I see why you have the opinion you do with my ideas and my approach. You seem to have a completely disconnected view on what blizzards goal is with the class trees and by extension, class and spec design.
I would love for you to put a class tree together for priest. I think you would need to do that to fully see the folly of your suggestions.
But that’s not something you do as a part of your general often use rotational abilities. It comes in handy sure, but not doing that won’t effect your play style and synergy of your playtime. It’s helpful for the task at hand, but not required.
no its totally part of my rotation applying SW:P is proper play to maximize your damage as a holy or disc. not everything synergies even in other specs, its a great filler and should be used when fighting bosses as you should never let it fall off of them.
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