(BETA) Dragonflight Priest Talent Tree Feedback Thread

Playstyle choice.
Maybe you didn’t bother checking out the options that I have put in place but I took the approach to accomplish a myriad different playstyle options.

Voidform

  • Bursty with long CD
  • Cooldown reduction / form extending to give it the legion style feel

Non Voidform

  • Play like a Bursty Cata version of Shadow
  • Play like a WoD version of Shadow

I have all those factored in and a mixture of all of them if you so choose. I factored ALL that into my talent choices and pathing.

Which makes it a bad talent choice.
You shouldn’t have to read how a talent works and ignore half of it. That is NOT a good talent option. That is horrible design practice.

1 Like

Hum. I guess my english isn’t good enough and you don’t understand what I’m saying… Tons of people want FG and its a good option for our 3 specs. I’m not an arvocate for ot to come back at all costs. What I was saying is that its an ability that exists that alreadu adresses what you were trying to address with your PI stuff…

Except oys not. For shadow it’s basically fire and forget but ok I guess… :man_shrugging:

Well that’s a matter of opinion.

That’s true and I agree it should be changed. Not sure what’a your point here?

I haven’t tbh. And you may have good suggestions in there. I never said otherwise. I’m talking about your PI stuff…

So more reason to bring just disc and not holy and shadow? And you say my approch is not good…

I just saod that your expwrience with current priest shows in your idea. Nothing wrong with that actually… you seem to be hinking that I am attacking you, which is totally not the case and I’m sorry you feel that way…

So far you don’t respond well to negative criticism. Which is mostly what I made about your stuff. But it doesn’t mean I don’t agree with some stuff. I just don’t have anything constructive to say. Typical feedback/internet comments :man_shrugging:

So basically, you hear an idea and without taking into consideration of how you obtain it and what you have to sacrifice and how it would interact with the spec section (shadow in this case) you are making judgements with only a portion of the data.

I guess you can do that, but why should I entertain your comments when you don’t even bother to take in the entire picture of what I am painting.

Your only frame of reference is what is currently in place and not taking into account my suggestions of how it can be changed for the better in its entirety… the class/spec trees… not just a single ability.

If you disagree that the goal of the “Class” tree is to cater to the class as a whole as much as possible… I have no words… That is EXACTLY the point of the “Class” tree… its in the name for crying out loud, this isn’t a debate.

Does that mean it will succeed in that goal? NO, but it should be THE defining goal to work towards. To think otherwise and you have just shown a massive disconnect for the intent of the class tree.

The point is that my tree imo solves this issue… without taking that into consideration, your view on my ideas is missing a MASSIVE portion of contextual data that impedes true honest feedback.

Exactly, you are taking issue with the shape of a puzzle piece, without seeing how it fits in the puzzle as a whole.

Only because of the casting on another person aspect. It creates a lot of issues. I don’t like that such a powerful ability needs to have so much coordination. But if it has to exist, then we should have the ability to make it work how we want to use it as much as possible.

Once again… NO you are wrong.
If you care to look, every time I took issue is only when my character was brought up and the conversation shifted from the idea to a more personal matter.

To me, this just shows that anyone who does this has nothing constructive to offer and is just trying to lean into a personal discredit someone as a way out of the hole they dug themselves. THAT I cannot and WILL not accept. That is an example of many things wrong in the world. STOP making everything personal when the goal is to discuss ideas.

If you have degree is X field, you may know what your talking about and you may just gotten free easy instructors that just passed you through the system so they have a good outcome report and get proper funding etc. So a piece of paper or proper “credential’s” is BS. I don’t care if you played 100 years or your 5 years old. If you have a good or bad idea, I treat the idea the same regardless of the person who says it. That is the ONLY way to have an honest conversation.

So once we veer off the idea and lean towards a persons personal choices that have nothing to do with the idea, I will push back HARD. That is unacceptable.

Alright I’ll take a proper look to your trees. Care to relink them? It’s quite far away and this place isnt exacrly easy to browse on a phone.

PI is easy to judge on it’s own. Ence why I was commenting on that without the big picture. But again you seem quite upset about just one comment so are you ready for me commenting on the whole thing?

IMO it would be difficult to get a proper understanding from a phone.
I would say if your actually being serious, the best way would be to install the TTM application and import in my trees and play with it in its interactive state.

That way you can see all the various pathing and options and limitations and be able to see in real time the “safeguards” if you will.

Having said that, here is the link anyway…

1 Like

I’ll take a serious look as soon as possible. Bookmarked your post here.

Also, feel free to make adjustments or create your own tree and export out (assuming you install TTM and check it out in that medium) and then paste the export here and then I can see exactly what you changed without you needing to do a writeup.

I’d really like Mind Bomb to be something better than a disorient that breaks on damage so easily. Like I wish it was a binding, or a snare or maybe even a stun. Something that can actually keep adds in a spot.

Mind Bomb was a stun in Legion.
They changed it into a disorient because they didn’t want so many chain stunning happening I think. So the idea of it being changed back into an AOE stun is slime. But one could hope lol.

In WoD we had Void Tendrils to act as an AOE root. I would think that can be a great talent for Class tree. That is something I included in my mock up version. So hopefully that’s something that can be an option when/if we get updates on the talents again.

I’d love to see tendrils return–possibly even spectral guise. Priest toolkit got neutered after MoP as part of the “arms race de-escalation.” Problem is, that philosophy wasn’t applied to all classes equally. Now it seems as though you spend most of your time face-tanking a bunch of hyper-mobile melee classes with a plethora of abilities to keep you locked down.

Edit: Now that I’m thinking about it, just bring back MoP shadow lol. I know that’s not realistic, but man, it was way more fun than this void priest nonsense.

3 Likes

Arms race deescalation just meant the gutting of casters as collateral to the real arms race between mages and rogues/warriors.

To nobody’s surprise, those 3 classes have stayed dominant in PvP regardless. Being a balance druid, ele shaman, shadow priest, or warlock is a miserable experience as a result. You’re literally a target dummy whose only hope is that your teammate can outburst whatever is tunneling you in a CC window.

One would think these less mobile classes would be given disarms or better instant self healing and mitigation (they removed the 15% DR off balance druid and shadow priest for no reason and gave them the useless armor when most classes now deal magical damage).

Shadow had in fact a disarm previously. But that was removed for some ridiculous reason. God forbid mongo melee not be allowed to sit on you with 2-3 stuns, 12 sec cd interrupts, and 2-3 immunities on demand vomiting damage left and right.

2 Likes

Intro
Alright, so this is the reply that discuss your custom class tree that you’ve made. I’ll probably check your shadow tree later, but otherwise, here is the TLDR for the majority of people who might not care about the long post: Some fun stuff, some OP stuff. There is good and bad and overall placement seems great I feel. Good work.

Now, here are the general comments on the tree. No suggestions yet, just comments.

Section 1

While the theme of having life and death of the first row is interesting, I feel it’s really a strong option that comes with no cost for when it’s needed. And holy, the spec that starts with this option, is probably the spec that needs it the least. It’s like a constraining Serenity. Most holy priests I know don’t care all that much for this and would rather get PoM by default, which makes a lot more sense for the toolkit. That’s my opinion though, but I’ve seen quite a few holy who couldn’t care less about HW:L (at least as a capstone)

I know that blizz did this as well, but I’m really not a fan of disc getting both holy and shadow options on top, why not get a power word option? Since shield is not used much by shadow/holy maybe it should not be baseline (in favor for something else) and disc start with a central PW:S option? (just brainstorming as always)

I feel the 1st section is a bit bloated. There are too many things to pick, I pick my 8 points and I don’t have room for all the utility that I would need. This is exacerbated by the other sections providing a lot of good picks as well, making me not want to come back and get more than the 8 talents that I put in initially. Shadows seems fine as it has some choices to make here though. This is mostly a problem for the 2 healers. Pathing seems nice, I also like that you moved some strong options to section 2.

Prayer of healing
Holy has already seen a portion of its toolkit taken away from them (to be put into the class tree). Their current tree is a bit empty tbh, so I’m not sure how I feel seeing yet another holy ability here. They have like 23 talents total for the first 2 sections of their tree so they have basically no choices to make, and you’re reducing that to 22…

I feel holy is pigeonholed into going left side. While right side could be interesting in m+ for the damage components.

Searing Pain So you can infinitely spread your SW:Pain without any costs. Even in the shadow tree, this is too strong imo. The spreading should cost something at the very least (cd, proc, insanity/mana)

This is super strong for healers as well and invalidates PotW for disc, which is a big reason to take that option in the first place (for easier spread)

The damage reduction is too strong as well. Sin rogues have a similar option that have 10% chance to proc on attack with a specific poison AND is 3% reduction. This talent is really too strong to be able to do both: spread SW:P for free as well as overpowering sin rogue damage reduction by a mile…

Translucent Image/Phantasm
I feel this is quite strong for a tier 1 talent. And it’s free because of it’s placement, there isn’t really a reason not to get it when you need it.

Thought Harvester
I feel this is interesting, but might be a bit too strong for our healers, and more specifically disc. But interesting idea still.

Masochism
Current masochism has some usefulness… This promotes for the squishiest healers in the game to hurt themselves for mana. Not a big fan of this one :man_shrugging:

Section 2

Number of talents seems more in line with other trees for section 2. Pathing makes it so that you can easily unlock any path for the last section if you want (Although might be some wasted picks for some specs that we’ll discuss later)

**Clerics Armaments **
Way better path to allow for disc to go there. Although I find this hard to be a section 2 choice for the other 2 specs. Shadow and holy don’t shield themselves as it’s mostly a waste of global/mana. Pre-fight shielding is an option as well as playing with Body and Soul, but still a bit meh.

Smitten
Not a big fan of seeing this here. I feel it would be a bit strong for holy AND this pigeonholes healers to dps with smite even in AoE situations. It’s a cool option for sure, but I feel it’s way too strong

Archangel
Kinda forced into picking this. It’s fun, but healers already have their bars full honestly, and sometimes, you look into options to reduce the number of buttons you have to press. This is the only way to get mandatory utility like mass dispel or PI. Dark arch could increase damage done (not just shadow), Healers might find this option more appealing if they want to help/contribute to damages

Mindfull words
Interesting, although I’m not a fan of this being behind MC. Sounds fun in terms of interactions. Could be dangerous with Death/Life :slight_smile: and might be a bit hard to balance with the stronger words maybe (Barrier for example). But alright!

Shadowfiend/Mindbender
Interesting new option to do something different while they are on the same node. I feel shadowfiend is going to be mandatory pick for shadow, but that could be fine. Might be a bit strong but I guess it can be tuned.

You are kinda forced into either AoE or MindControl options to go there. As disc I feel I wouldn’t want either for raid content (To get to mindbender for damage & mana) So pathing could be improved I feel.

Paralysis
This should be psychir horror. Shadow has 2 of these with your setup, this will be hella strong in pvp

Section 3

Light/Dark of the Naaru
Interesting. Although I feel you’d have to waste a few points to get there as shadow. (At least 6 points that aren’t so nice investment-wise) Feels bad to “sacrifice” that many points even if it could be worth it.

Crystaline reflexion
Better placement than the original tree. I feel this is still a wasted pick for holy/shadow still. And the 2 points version would probably be too strong for disc.

Inner focus
I feel this is a bit OP for disc, to pop before ramps… that’s basically a free ramp every 2 ramps. Disc mana is heavily constrained in raid to balance it, so this won’t do I feel.

PW:Twilight
Interresting idea. Although a bit too rng to my liking. It’s more a disc thing again, and disc has to properly setup everything for incoming damage. The RNG factor in this makes it a lot less interresting, I’d always want this to proc on the tank, and it will likely never do so. (Just an opinion ofc)

Leap of faith/Vault of heavens
Weird placement. I feel this should be higher in the tree. This is a mandatory pick for priest (imo) and having it in the 3rd section makes it so that you want to put your 10 remaining points in the strongest throughput talents. We’re kinda loosing our wings if they’re here I feel.

Mind Bomb
Really interesting pick for M+. Might be a bit strong pvp-wise as you can’t really dodge this if you are the target. Might be interresting if it’s the caster (or a friendly target) that would cause the explision (would feel a bit more balanced at least, since ennemies could dodge if tweaked properly)

Reconstituted Power
We’ve already discussed this. I still stand by my points. But I’d add that it could be ok-ish because of it’s placement in the tree. Could have to sacrifice throughput to pick it. Shadow priests that are asked to give their PIs to others might have to sacc 2 talents there since you’re not adding Twins of the sun priestess in your tree…

Void Tendrils
Quite flavorful, I like. 1 hit to kill the tendrils? are they killable by AoE? Feels like this could be exploited in m+ and could be a bit strong in PvP again. depends on how the numbers can be tweaked. Keep in mind that healers can use these as well in pvp…

Petrified
Interesting idea as well, definetely would use in m+ if I can spare the point (Although I have to chose with other cc options :frowning: ) Could be a good choice to reduce button bloat for sure.

Cascade/Dark Cascade
This feels too strong for a lot of cases. CD is short as well. I’d imagine shadow priest could be asked to spend a point here for some fights if the healers need a bit of help. Dark version could be interesting for healers in m+ for organized groups that do big pulls. Sounds fun though. You’re also forced to pick AoE/Stuns to get to this, if you’d want to go that way for raids (For healing) this feels a bit off.

Spectral guise
6 secondes freecast time for healers in pvp sounds a bit dangerous. I know this is a fun/historical hability. Cool stuff. Might be too strong in class tree still.

Mind restraints
This is a basic talent for disc that is super deep in the tree. While it is OP for shadow I feel. I’m still not sold to the idea that this should be in the class tree, no matter where this is…

Void Shift
I feel this is really too niche of a usecase. I would never pick this up, at least as a capstone or even in the 3rd section (just my opinion). I guess shadow could make a bit use off of it since it can heal itself through damage a bit, but even then, it would be better off higher in the tree if we’d want to have this.

Exsanguinate
Interesting option. Could be a bit strong for disc. This would have to be off atonement healing… and it would lose most of its appeal then… Would have to be toned down a lot for pvp as well…

Mindgames
I like that you have to chose for either aoe or single target. My problem with this is more with it’s placement. This is an ability that see a lot of use in pvp for all tree specs, but you’re forced to pick fiend/mindbender and rabbit shadow to get to it, which isn’t necessarily something you’d want as holy for this context (for example) SFP makes sense here because it doesn’t work without those options.

Overall thoughts

For shadow, I feel that there isn’t much way to go to the left and not waste points (to get to dark naaru) The options seems fun but it feels bad to give up 6 points to get there. Otherwise, there are more options to chose from depending on the content, feels better than the current alpha tree for this. Unwavering will, Crystaline reflextion and inner-Focus/Twilight seems wasted for shadow (assuming we could go there easily)

For disc, the top of the tree offers too many options with too few choices. I feel like I’m constrained on picking things I don’t want a lot of the time. Ex: for raid or pvp, I might want to go with PoM and not mind sear, this makes me have to pick Mind Control to go the mindbender way (which ok for pvp, but likely not for raid) I feel like some options will never be picked because there are so many interesting stuff to chose from and so few spare points (ex: shackle undead).

Second section feels ok-ish, feels like I really have to think things through here because there are a lot of interresting options that feels mandatory rather than have a few mandatory options + some flavor/utility that I could chose from depending on context.

3rd section feels like there are a lot of really strong options for disc. While this is fun, it feels like some options should be nerfed to nothingness for disc OR for all three specs at once (See each of these respectively for more info)

For Holy, top section is even worst than disc. Too many choices, too few points to spend. HW:Life is hurting as well because you have to spend 1 point to get to PoM… You also have to pick ShadowMend to get to Mind Sear if you want to go the m+ aoe route a bit.

Second section feels a bit bad in that case and you’d endup spending some points back into the left section of the first tier if you want to go to the Naaru capstone. (I guess this is ok-ish)

For healers, I feel we might be getting a bit of button bloat. I’ve got more than 3 bars worth of keybinds as both healing specs RN and we’re adding silence+Archangel and gaining a good 2-3 abilities in the last section (without even playing in the spec tree) While we can gain a few slots by not selecting them like shackle undead or mind control, etc, still feels like there might be to many activated abilities to be gained in the bottom section, would have to see the real thing with class tree to be sure though…

1 Like

For the shadow tree, we’ve already discussed it a bit, so I’m not going to re-iterate on the nodes, I’d rather discuss pathing, which seems greatly improved.

You’ve reduced the top section of the tree which is great and feels less like you’re sacrificing points to get your base toolkit. Making VE and Dispersion mandatory picks in the second section makes them not feel like you sacrifice throughput to get your basic toolkit back. Great.

Otherwise, pathing seems great and it looks fun. I can understand why poeple encourage you, your shadow tree looks good if I’m being frank. I don’t agree with some of the spells changes like void eruption (like we discussed before) and others, but hey, you’ve polished this one a lot more I feel.

2 Likes

After using Unholy Nova rather than Boon of the Ascended over the past week, I’d actually like to see this an option in the Discipline Tree. It feels really good to press, but maybe reduce the CD to 40 seconds.

2 Likes

haven’t played with it much since s2 (in which I just barely touched). It sure is fun and feels better to play than boon. While boon hits hard, I hate to be constrained in my actions during its window. Shadow Cov has the same problem, which looks to be addressed in DF.

If we’re loosing mindsear, UH nova could be a fun replacement at the very least.

1 Like

Now that I think about it, I guess disc could have twist of faith by default. This also makes for a super easy pick for the other two, who are definitely interested in the node.

1 Like

Overall response to your comments, It seems to come across as 2 main points that you are not taking into consideration…

  • PvP and how priests generally are just a punching bag and therefore the PvP type of talents are designed with that in mind. (Ill explain later).

  • Previous talents / abilities we had in the past and making a return. You have a lot to say about things we already had in the past. So I don’t know what else to say except that we had it before, so I don’t see a problem having it again as you can see that many other classes are following that same logic. Remember, we are going forward with a totally new landscape with these new talent trees… meaning Priests are not the only ones getting new and returning stuff.

With that out of the way, I will go through specific points made…
1st section bloat
Yes this section is more bloated, but I don’t think that is a bad thing, in fact I think that is a good thing and I’ll explain why. But 1st, I want to draw attention to the current DF tree for Priest Class. If you compare that with mine, they are both aligned in that each have a top heavy section compared to the middle section.
The reason why I think its a “good” thing for the top section to be more bloated than the top is as follows…

  • It allows you to backtrack a bit after the middle section to either lean further into your chosen side OR lean to the other side so you have access to the other part of the the class your not currently leaning into. I will post pics of various builds that I think would achieve this without loosing much.

Holy Word: Life stuff
Yea that can replaced I suppose (open to a specific example that fits as a 1st talent) but I did just relocate Holy Word: Life here for the purpose for Disc and Shadow to have access to it as I agree that for holy, it might just be another button… but it might not. I don’t have the Alpha so I don’t know how this would feel.

Prayer of Healing
I moved this to Class tree because this is a core AOE healing ability that each spec can find uses for. Primary example is when your in PvP or in M+ and all the targets are dead and you are trying to recover quickly… As Disc and Shadow, you don’t have any targets to leech dmg to heal from. So with Shadow you have to single target heal and Disc you have to also single target heal or use CD’s.

For Holy… I think both Holy and Disc trees need some work as well. Especially Holy because as you said, its lacking points. But for holy specifically, talents that interact with Prayer of Healing can exist… Examples below…

  • Renewed Prayer
    Your Prayer of healing has a 25% chance to apply Renew to each target if they are above 75% health or a 75% chance if they are below 75% health.

  • Rebounding Prayer
    Your Prayer of healing has a 30/60% chance to duplicate Prayer of Mending and force it to bounce to another target.

Searing Pain
Just to clarify, you need to FINISH the CHANNEL in its entirety in order to THEN apply SW:P to all targets affected. Meaning you wont be able to just cast it and wait for 1 tick of dmg for SW:P to get applied. It might still be too strong? Maybe, but I just wanted to clarify that point.

Regarding the Damage reduction, I wanted a niche utility that all Priests can bring since 1, why should you bring a priest to M+ vs other classes? (Now we can mass damage reduction) and 2, At least for Holy is very squishy. So this is a way to add defenses via an offensive ability. In addition, Shadow can now offer damage reduction by picking this talent and just playing normally. I just think this is a strong option for our class which translate into a “reason” to want to bring a priest. The DR can be adjusted… what would feel good? 1-3%? But again, this is more of a proof of concept… number crunching took a back seat.

Translucent Image/Phantasm
Is the DR attached to this the strong aspect? or the 10% amount of DR?
Meaning if it was 5% would that be acceptable?
Do you think Phantasm is also to strong for its placement?

Thought Harvester
This already existed in BFA. But the trigger was Vampiric Touch. I just changed the trigger to be Shadow Word: Pain. This is to allow Holy and Disc to have some decent offensive ability and I suppose for Shadow for those that still want to use it as such.

Masochism
This existed in the sate that I show back in Cata. This is AMAZING for priests because of how Prayer of Mending mechanically works. So many times you can get your Prayer of Mending to bounce on you and you just SW:D to bounce it back. Did those all the time as Shadow back in the day.

Also note, to get this you need to get the Death and Madness talent. That talent makes SW:D do damage back to you as though the target had 50% or greater health. With the feedback damage that SW:D does, it does reduced damage Above 20% and above 50% because SW:D does the opposite of doing more dmg at or below 20% and at or below 50%. So the default feedback damage will only be a small amount as it will only factor in the above 50%. So basically, its enough to break CC and bounce Prayer of mending, but not enough to put you in any real harm… that’s the intent anyway.

Section 2
Some are wasted picks…
The fact that Shadow using Mind Flay and Holy and Disc using Smite means there is going to cause some talents to not be a good pick for all specs. But I tried to keep that to a minimum.

Clerics Armaments
Often time when I need to move, I use PW:S regardless of my spec. So I use this often… Power Word: Shield SHOULD be used by all specs as it has since the beginning been a core part of our kit for all specs. So if we are not using it that often, then that’s a problem imo. But again, its not a required path to take as I will show later in some example builds.

Smitten
Knowing holy is squishy, that drove me to look at Smite and see how it can be enhanced to help that aspect. Then we have the damage absorb proccing from disc back in the day. So I figured why not introduce a small form if it in the class tree so Holy can have some damage absorbs as well. It is meant not as a replacement to healing, but as a small buffer to damage intake. It only working with SMITE and nothing else and ONLY when it crits and ONLY on the lowest health target I think makes it not that strong to be mandatory but will be a nice little oomph for those that want some absorb procing back.

Archangel
This once once again in Cata with Dark Archangel.
The intent for this is to help “Define” the Priest class with wings and the “Angelic” aspect that is littered throughout the history of Priest from ability names and visuals to tier set visuals and anything else I forgot lol.
The idea is that along with how I built Shadows Tree, Holy and Disc would get talents that build onto Archangel / Dark Archangel within there respective talent trees. They can act like the Paladin Avenging wrath and Druid Berserk talents where you get different additional effects back on the one you pick, or you can get more supporting abilities like calling forth an Archangel or a Valkyrie or something of that nature to help guard/protect/support you and your allies… something like a Raid cooldown perhaps? I have several examples I can show you or you can see for yourself if you scroll up on the link I provided earlier.

Mindful words
This is branching from Mind Control because this is triggered by Mind Blast. So they both have that similar aspect of “Mind” abilities. This also makes it so you don’t feel like your wasting a point for picking Mind Control if you don’t think you need it as its required to pick this up and then go down the far right of the tree if you avoid the top right path.

IMO I don’t see an issue to his affecting barrier… You cant spam barrier so its not like it can be abused. And you have an internal 30 sec CD that prevents you from abusing this in its entirety.

The way I see it, you will be using Mind Blast nearly on CD… meaning you will proc this almost as soon as its up. Meaning you can only plan to empower Barrier if you avoid using any Power Word: Shield, Shadow Word Pain etc. and / or Hold Mind Blast all in order to get that Power Word: Barrier buff. I think you basically have to stop playing your spec in order to set that up… that’s not really going to happen in my eyes. You will just play like you normally do and every now and then you get a slight buff to something as a bonus.

Shadowfiend/Mindbender
With the addition of Shadowfiend having that Shadow Vulnerability attached to it… the idea comes from Classic Shadow Priest with Shadow Weaving talent where it debuffs your target top take extra shadow damage. I figured tying this to Shadow Fiend would make this guy really scary as each hit he does will get harder and harder and allow you to burst more and more the longer he stays out and onto the target.

Perhaps a stack cap might be needed and the stack % lowered? Not sure. But I want a reason to pick Shadow Fiend over Mind Bender.

Mind Bender might work better with SFP as you can summon it a lot more often. Also with Mind Bender granting resource, it evens out the playstyle choice of the player.

So each have there place imo.

Paralysis
This existed in Cata. So I have nothing else to say that it was fine then, don’t see it an issue now. You cant set this up and abuse it as Mind Blast has a cooldown and you NEED a crit to trigger this which is a luck of the draw.

Section 3
The goal here is to have some really hard choices you need to make in…

  • Pathing
  • Utility
  • Capstone

Light/Dark of the Naaru
Is an option to improve your single target abilities which take form in the lifecycle of Naaru/Dark Naaru
There are builds for Shadow to make use of this without much sacrifice. I assume you don’t see an issue for Holy or Disc to get to this.

Crystalline Reflection
Again, this should be of benefit for all 3 specs. If its too strong, we can reduce numbers. but typically you wont be getting this without trying to get Inner Focus or Power Word: Twilight

Inner Focus
Is meant to be a merge between Holy/Disc in Throughput.
Inner Focus in its original state seems to weak for a capstone talent as it was a 3 min CD that only affected 1 spell. So I instead made it last for a time and affect all spells during the duration. 10 sec does seem strong. So I was thinking maybe 3-5 sec? Also the Mana cost reduction can reduced to maybe 50%? Not sure.
Shadow would only take this for the +Crit aspect mostly. So imagine popping this + cascade + other AOE abilities. That is why this would be a good pick for DPS.

Power Word: Twilight
I admit, it does seem strong. The intent is to have a STRONG shield sometimes. This is mainly for Holy and Shadow to shore up incoming damage that they cant mitigate. PvP is what I am thinking. But can also work decent in incoming high burst damage moments in PvP. So the numbers can be reduced / altered. Just not sure what would be a good fit without being useless/overpowered. But I like the aspect of taking Healing and Damage and applying it to the absorb amount.

Leap of faith/Vault of heavens
Its meant to be a strong choice and act as a pathing node for the more helpful utility side of things.

Mind Bomb
Shadow already has this exactly Switch Talent. I just move it over to the class tree to avoid the bloated utility in the Shadow Tree while allowing Holy and Disc to grab if they want to sacrifice other strong utility and capstone talents for it.

Reconstituted Power
Just to clarify… When this reads…

The cooldown of Power infusion is reduced by 50% at 80% effectiveness.
Your Mind Blast critical hits extend the duration of Power Infusion by 1 sec.

This translates to… Base Haste is 25%. Taking this will change it to 20%. So you are sacrificing a couple of things here…

  • Using another point for something you already have
  • Opportunity Cost in that you have 1 less point to get the other capstones

So That’s why I don’t think this is a bad choice, it is actually a compelling choice. At the same time, you have more options to help align other CD’s regardless of your spec. So if taking thing aligns more with your CD’s then it might be a solid choice, otherwise it might be best to pick something else. Again, just having the choice is the primary focus here.

Void Tendrils
This already existed in MoP and WoD. Just bringing it back as a class utility option.

Cascade/Dark Cascade
Is meant to be the cool AOE button so many want back… but at the cost of other choices if you want.
But it already existed in MoP and WoD. Many want it back. I think it can be brought back with an opportunity Cost. Thus its place as a capstone. The cooldown and overall numbers again can be adjusted. I see no issue with that.

Spectral guise
Again, This already existed in this exact state in MoP and WoD. Just brining it back as a class talent with opportunity cost.
To Clarify, when you use this, you are unable to cast anything else for the duration because as soon as you do, it cancels the shadow effect. So you cant just spam things for the duration and be stealthed. You use this typically to either get behind enemy lines or escape. Not to have a window of free casting as cast 1 spell and the effect ends.

Mind restraints
I don’t really like this either. I think it was put in place to give some defensive to all specs. But I just don’t really like it because as you mentioned, it can have issues with PvP and balancing and even in PvE. So I included it mainly cause I needed a good 2 point talent to act as a barrier for the capstone after. I moved it this far down the tree so it acts as a opportunity cost if you really want it.

Void Shift
This is amazing for group PvP. But I also find uses for it in PvE. Thus why I brought it back in the class tree. We used to have this in MoP as well.

Exsanguinate
To clarify, this is WORTHLESS if you are full HP. This is only becomes useful the lower you health is. Basically, the idea behind this is if you are getting punched in the face in PvP or PvE then this is a long Cooldown that you can use to reverse the table against the enemy and give yourself a fighting chance. Meaning if you are already winning, this does nothing. Only when you are the underdog does this actually do anything.

The damage it causes wont exceed your max HP. So if you have 100k HP, and the target has 300k hp… you can only do like 99999 damage if you used it at like 1% HP. So only 1/3 of the target with 300k HP.

Having said that, you still think this is too strong?

Mindgames
I mean I see your point, but I don’t see a world where any priest does not pick Shadowfiend or Mind Bender. As either damage or mana return is really good. Not to mention you want to have your guy out attacking someone like a Druid or Rogue to prevent restealth if you are sapped / stunned / blinded or something.

The primary reason to share with SFP is so you don’t feel so locked in to spending so many points and going down paths you don’t want to just to get these 2 capstones as you see in the current DF talent tree. The intent was to force the choice like you mentioned and still have points to pick other stuff.

Also, it does “fit” thematically with SFP as its called “Mind Games” and that entire right side primary feature is “Mind” abilities.


So now ill show some various builds that really takes advantage imo of the entire tree.

See link for different build paths for various specs and content that I think would be a decent or good build.

I agree, but that doesn’t mean priest is weak though. But ok, we’ll see later

Well, that’s true, but disc is a complete new beast that plays in a entirely new way, so we still have to be careful. But I agree otherwise.

I agree, it would be fine if the middle section was a bit weaker. But there are really good options there, at least for disc who can make use of most everything, and it’s really hard to backtrack tbh. Seems less of a problem for holy and shadow though, so it might be ok in the end.

Disc has really good aoe heal with atonement though, and no hybrid class gets this kind of aoe healing power for multiple people (unless I’m mistaken)

I’m not saying it’s wrong to put this here, but we really need to figure out holy’s tree before removing any more stuff from it to be put in the class tree.

Oh, interesting information. Could be ok for spreading, but my other points still persist about overlap with PotW. Maybe still to strong but could be tuned I guess.

  • PI, a good PI, even on yourself as a shadow priest at the right time and place is time gains that is great for any key.
  • Mass Dispel (This is overlooked for bursting weeks and for a lot of other things that you can offensive dispel or dispel 2 persons that are spread out (For the healer at least) Shadow also gets to be the only dps who can magic dispel with this.
  • Offensive dispel, that others can bring, but still something that not all healers can do.
  • PW:Fort

Could we use something else? Maybe… I’m not saying that what you’re suggesting is bad, I’m comparing it to an equivalent ability that was given to Sin rogues in DF that is significally weaker compared to this.

I dunno, maybe It would be fine, we are squwishy after all. I’m just worried that it’s too easy to get to it if you feel that you need it, but maybe it’s fine.

I’m ambiguous on this one. Feels like we’re getting Paladin’s Blessing of Freedom a bit too easily. But maybe it’s fine, dunno.

I know it existed before, but my concern is more about: is it too strong for healers to get this? Healers don’t seem to be too heavily focussed on having good damages so far in DF. I’m mostly wondering if it’s strong. Monks have an equivalent of this with Spinning crane kicks, and it’s only a WW thing.

Disc has this as a pvp talent still btw. I kwow it’s an option that existed in a different form before. That doesn’t mean it should be in the tree (But why not)

Otherwise, I’d need to see your disc/holy setups because, honestly, this just contribute to the button bloat. I agree for the thematic and the fact that it’s great. This is one suggestion that impact all our trees, and I’m really not expecting such heavy changes accross the board with the xpack 3 months away with our class dev who just left. For me this is just contributing to button bloat + I lose a decent pvp talent as disc…

Just because something existed before doesn’t mean it’s still fine in todays game… I feel your logic is flawed here but ok…

And why do we need to merge their throughput? We’re already pushing quite a few cds for our ramp, why add another one for disc?

Button bloat…

That’s not a good enough reason to add it back in my book. I can see that it looks fun. I’m just not convinced, notably for disc, that this would work relative to balance with all tree specs.

I’m not saying it’s not useful. But why there in the tree? Doesn’t feel like a capstone at least.

That was clear in the tooltip.

With atonement healing, yes. In pvp it still seems overly powerful even if we exclude the atonement healing potential.

Might be true, I’m mostly trying to see the options there, and I dunno what mana will look like for holy and if there would be a reason not to want shadowfiend/mindbender.

1 Like

I’m drawing a blank here.
What is PotW?

We had it before in Cata and through WoD at least.
There is a PvP talent that takes this a step further. I think that should stay a PvP talent. But we can get slowed in PvE as well as it would be nice to remove it.

  • Greater Fade
    Fade out, removing all threat, increasing your movement speed by 50% and causing most melee, ranged and spells to miss you. Lasts 3 sec or until you take a hostile action.

Thought Harvester
Its strength is a concern for what purpose? Do you forsee Holy and Disc not healing and just doing DPS with this? Do you think it will cause healing via damage to not have to hit your other buttons?

If the healing potential is a concern, just make it not interact with anything that would cause healing from it. Just like how Shadow using Vampiric Embrace does not benefit from Mind Sear Damage.

Or it can go away. I only moved it here because I moved Mind Flay here and I figured this is now treating Mind Flay at its base level to be more of utility or to get something like Searing Pain interaction going.

I am not well versed enough to make changes to the level of Class and Shadows tree for Holy and Disc. Those were always my offspecs. So I just played / used what was there with out taking into considerations the entirely of what the spec / toolkit offers.

Another reason why I would like others to fill in the gaps and build the talent trees they would like to see for Holy and Disc especially because of my lack of familiarity with them.

Or you gain something else for PvP instead as you already have it in Class Talents. Then potential to expand and enhance it more more of a disc Style like…

All your absorbing abilities are increased by 50% for the duration of Archangel.
OR
All your DPS abilities heal for 50% more during the duration of Dark Archangel.

Just spit balling here, but you get the point.

Paralysis
So you don’t think this has a place now? Can you expand on that as to why?
This is a great way to get space from melee in PvP. I don’t see how that is not wanted or needed in current wow… if anything I would think it would be needed more now than back in Cata.
Have you seen the crazy stuff warriors are getting in their talents lol? They gonna be training on you and hitting you like a truck nonstop lol.

Inner Focus
Merging meaning, on the tree it in the portion that blends Holy and Disc. Meaning its more suited for “helping” than it is for DPS. I was referring to its placement.

The effect of it is just another option for those that want the ability to manage mana better and have a burst effect with the crit. Again, its a choice for those that want it. Maybe some do, maybe some don’t. It doesn’t have to fit a need, it can simply just be a player choice.

Mind Bomb
If you think this is button bloat, then you don’t need to take it. Again, its a choice. Another thing this can be instead is the Holy Talent Shining Force.

  • Shining Force
    Creates a burst of light around a friendly target, knocking away nearby enemies and slowing their movement speed by 70% for 3 sec.

Cascade/Dark Cascade
I think the tuning of damage and cooldown and the fact that its only good in spread encounters (most people group up and AOE things down) and you have the opportunity cost when picking this compared to another option. I think it can have a place and has enough ways to balance it.

Again though, I don’t expect the tree to be takin in by blizz wholesale. They may or may not want to ever have Cascade back. But in showing what it costs to get it I am hoping it will be enough justification to bring it back because of the various limiting factors in choosing it.

Void Shift
This being in the Class tree as a capstone makes the most sense to me. Because you need to sacrifice something else to get this imo. This shouldn’t be in a spot that is easily accessible.

I tried to put major cooldowns or situational but strong utility type abilities as capstones because of the way it is pathed and layed out, you can get multiple capstones. You just have to choose what you are willing to do without given your spec and situation.

Exsanguinate

Cool, glad it read like that then. Wasn’t sure if that came across correctly.

Maybe the issue is atonement healing? Maybe it should only be able to be activated by your core rotational and Discipline specific cooldown abilities.

It seems the major issue when addressing anything useful or helpful for Holy or Shadow always has to take a back seat because of Disciplines potential benefit. I think that is Disciplines problem to figure out, not the other 2 specs.

Shadowfiend/Mindbender & its pathing to Mindgames
I just know that since BC, we always had Shadowfiend / Mind Bender and I don’t see a world where any spec would not want that. Maybe that will happen. If thats the case then I think its fine that, that’s just something you have to consider if you want Mind Games.

I honestly just want searing nightmare gone, Shadow Crash to apply VT to all targets it hits, and our spirits to be our main AoE dmg source.

3 Likes