Blizzard lost a LOT of players in both BFA and Shadowlands. I am one of those players… in retail.
I would like to come back, I stated that I left because of class changes when they ask why you are unsubbing when I did that when SL came out. However, I want to come back. Blizzard wants players that left to come back and new players.
Having a world that exists for the current player base and not having an ear for new ideas or brining back old playstyles is NOT the direction blizzard is currently at. If you think it is, YOU are in the wrong.
If anything, people with my perspective should be MORE attractive as that’s a potential new player and if they can find a reason to come back, so can more.
Again, you seem to think only the current way the game is set up is the ONLY way it should be set up. You are short sighted and close minded. That is why your reaction is shown in a way of what a bully would do. You are disgusting.
I’ve been changing main most expacks since forever because of the class changes.
Just saying. Not saying your reason is invalid.
Blizzard has yet to bring old playstyles in the game… Retails is a lot faster than classic and some old playstyle won’t cut it imo.
Doesn’t mean some old spells cannot be brought back with some tweaking though.
I disagree with you on that. Sure he relies too much on recognised players or achivements or whatnot. But he gives his idea just like you do. To a third party, you just look like you’re unhappy because he doesn’t like your ideas. You guys can just agree to disagree honnestly… Let’s get back on the subject of this thread guys.
Oh hell yes. I played Classic, BC and will play wrath again and i found when i healed dungeons on my priest and then came to retail and did keys my reactions were slowed massively and took a key or so to get the flow back.
I also dont think PWS/DA will help in keys . A larger pws in legion didint help disc in anyway be an easier spec to play. Clarity of Will wouldnt cut it today really either in my view.
gasp im hurt. You have besmirched my honour sir. en guarde.
I liked maxs vid today. Void bolt being an issue was not one i had considered. Still wrapping my head around that one.
As to disc, if as Jak stated in his vid they brough back trinity, which we asked for ages ago for keys then it might make protector of the frail useful cause at the moment outside of pvp and im not even sure then will it see some play in keys
What does that have to do with anything?
I am not talking about classic vanilla… and even if I was, the idea itself should not be discounted based on the “Person” saying that.
That is his entire stance. He just tried to string together flimsy reasons in the beginning, but once I pointed that out, he no longer discussed those reasons and instead is focusing on the “author” of the idea instead of the “idea” and its potential itself.
Which is exactly what my idea was about.
Re read what he is saying, he has admitted that he will not consider an idea unless its from a person that he deems to have value. He is not focused on the idea, he is focuses on the “author”. He says as much multiple times.
Let me ask you this…
What is easier? To find every single idea that you don’t agree with based on the person saying it and come up with a flimsy reason to stamp it out?
Or only engage with ideas when you actually have something to contribute to?
Because based on his stance, every idea that is shared and he doesn’t like should have his input in shooting it down. I can tell you that there are many ideas that are not good but does not draw his attention… I ask you why is that? If you look at our past engagements, you can clearly see this is a personal vendetta he has… even by his own recent words that he is trying to discredit the person… NOT the idea. He literally just said as much.
THAT is what I take issue with. I love to discuss ideas… but I abhor people that think only a chosen few have the right to discuss anything. THAT is his entire direction, he did not engage with the idea on a genuine level, he did it in spite of the author. That is clear based on what he just was saying.
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Well, I’m kinda not a fan of listenning to others because they are good. I prefer you get the 2 sides of the coin and make your own opinion kinda guy 
I’m not making cutting edge content though. I’m more interrested in the fun. So I can understand that people listen to the best. But I’m kinda fed up with this side of the community tbh.
Nothing againsts you 
Yep. Pretty interresting. As are his vids for all trees.
Not a big fan of that outside of arenas imo. Having the attonement up with shield only in keys is kinda meh as it’s where all forms of applying attonement gets used the most for me.
Im crap bro. keyboard turning clicker (not joking either) But my comments more go to credability/experience, not to being good. At no time have i ever said im good. That would be embarrassing. Others have made comments not me.
I understand. But its the people who cant have their fun because they cant get into the content they want to get into cause of metas etc. Some thought needs to be on what works, what gets the job done over whats fun. It is no fun being a MW trying to get into +20 keys i imagine atm. Same for disc. Rejection
Well it doesnt have to be only. PWR still works but trinity as an option would be nice. I do use pws on people when im on the move or sometimes moving into combat
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I think with the current design, the benefits of always being in Inner Shadow heavily outweigh the mana gain from always being in Inner Light.
But with my idea, I’d agree with your point, that if you’re overhealing so much, there’s more to gain by being mana efficient.
There are also many cases in this expansion where groups have to hold DPS to not push a boss, where having the ability to do less damage but save more mana would be a nice choice to make.
I dont know my friend, Disc has been pretty mana starved since legion, i wont say requiring innervate but eagerly asking for it, to do their job. Im hoping with all the mana options this xpac, that might not be the case for once but if mana is still an issue then inner light might be the way. If not then you are prob right inner shadow. 10% more atonement is nice. Add in MB xtra atonement too and MB could be potent this xpac
To be on the subject on disc, just hope things can get balanced where things like m+ especialy so on grevious week dont turn into shadow mend spam, shadowmend is nice when you need it, but i feel like it shouldnt be your main source of hps ever, personaly havnt healed this much this expansion, did a bit in bfa, dabled in it this expansion and outside of shadowmend spam, if felt hard to keep things alive in some insances on keys, if things have changed/gotten better, i apologize
All good bro. You know some of your spells take off stacks of grievous now? Like penance will take off 3 stacks of it which makes it a very nice catch up mechanic on that affix.
edit: 5 if you have the leggo proc and that proc as a Def Pen is like a lay on hands
None of it really looks good. Atonement still exists. Yikes. I wonder how many abilities holy won’t use again? I’ll definitely be either skipping this class again or the entire expac. The developers are still out of touch 
.
It’s really unfortunate - but with questions like this, the answer almost always boils down to ‘content creator said so’ or ‘sims said so.’
I think what’s funny about the idea that sims can determine everything, though, is that there’s been several times in WoW’s life where all the current running sims were assuming some very wacky things about a rotation when it was simmed, causing slants in certain talent/borrowed power directions that people just kind of accepted.
I think BfA was rife with this. There were so many systems interplaying on each other at that point, it was almost like Blizzard intentionally was trying to obfuscate how well anything performed by just making too many combinations to sim at all. Like they thought if characters couldn’t be simmed out there’d be more freedom. But turns out, they were wrong there because people still simmed with certain assumptions and sort of ‘decided’ what was best.
Granted, sims have become less and less part of the common discussions about specs, but in the absence of that, it became ‘what does the limit raider think in this context-less clip I have of them?’ or ‘what does the M+ creator’s tier list say?’ Even to the point where people won’t actually listen to what those players are even saying, they’ll just look up an image or quickly reference the very end of the video to see where they’re placed, etc.
Initial impressions of classes have a huge lasting impact right now. It shouldn’t be that way, but it really is bad.
That’s not a very good approach from a design stand point, specially in a game where there’s numerous types of content and difficulties. That type of approach is pretty much what landed us with these messy systems in the first place. Just because someone plays at a certain level, doesn’t mean their perspective is appropriate for everyone else. There’s plenty of things Aneurysm has thrown out there that I don’t think are good, but brainstorming (or muddying the waters) is necessary for development.
I agree there. But my point was listening to someone who has not done the content making comment on the content and dismissing what is said by those who DO do the content. Like i dont do pet battles or transmogs so i wouldnt make a comment on that area cause i dont know anything about that area. same with high end arena. I DO do the AH. I could fund a a mid tier guild on RWF. But i keep to my lanes.
Now if he had done the content then he would better know what is needed by those people and i brought up healing +15 keys say. But he hasnt. So we are cross intent. My intent is to look at whats likely and contentatrate on what we have. Nothing wrong with being creative. Im hard wanting spirit walkers grace. But thats a doable thing for us. Helps all 3 specs who have channled abilties AND aids keeping us alive since all priest specs are squishy.
10 min personal rez, yeah prob not much, mainly cause in keys you could rez 3 times in a key and let along mythic raiding on a 15 min fight. There are issues there that someone who has done the content can see.
There are plenty of people who put forth views. I then put my view, sometimes yes, sometimes no. I put reasons. He is the only one wanting to take it further really and turn it into a judicial debate
anyways, im not going to take his bait anymore lol so we can all move on
Content?
wtf are you on about.
When did I mention content? You are assuming crap.
I just shared an idea I had. You are the one that is taking that idea and placing it in whatever situation you think of… “content” I never mentioned it.
Don’t you dare start changing this entire discussion into something it never was.
I stated this before, I played my priest in Legion and since I main shadow, I did not want to play a class that the only DPS spec was something that I could not enjoy when it played completed different from the previous 10+ years I played my class. I played some 5 man M+ as Holy for a little bit to help my friends, but I quickly just benched my Priest for my Demon Hunter. Since then, I have been wanting to play my Priest again, but I wanted to get back to the fun I had before Legion.
Just because I am not playing the current version of the game does not make my input invalid, it actually gives me a unique perspective as I have a fresh memory of how the class and specs played well before the Legion revamp. I know how to play the class, I played it as my main in all types of content be it rated PvP or High end Raiding for years. That understanding of what it means to play a class at its core DOES NOT just disappear from over a decade long stay of playing.
You are a vile piece of work.
I forgive you. Move on. No one wants to read us going at each other
Don’t bring up nonsense and it wont be an issue.
Yeah I’m not a huge fan of the current discipline setup, it feels like you’re in a race against the Atonement timer instead of just being able to heal. I will say that it does feel good when those Atonement heals come in, but to me there’s an element of panicky.
idk how they address it though because it seems that too many buttons would eat up alot of time on the Atonement buff timer
idk if this has been said before, but what if our mastery included a scalar that affected the amount of time Atonement lasted for? I’m sure the devs have tried it, but I think if we had some control outside of Evangelism to make the window larger, that would be a fun play style and cause some shakeup in the stat weights…
idk, what do you guys think
The suggestion about trinity being a choice would help on that front. Although it makes you setup more atonements pre-emptively as only shield get’s you an atonement. It makes for stronger dps/heals as well as longer atonement.
While I’m not sure I’d want that specifically, it could be a great choice for sure.
Just to be clear, current trinity can’t be a choice without breaking raid, too.
It’d have to be the target cap version of trinity from back in Legion/early BfA.
Even then, I think there’s more elegant ways to solve the M+ atonement issue than Trinity. Blizzard would just need to finally bite the bullet and adjust atonement transfer in smaller group content. (Via something like sins of the many but with much less scaling pre-5 targets, etc).
I think previously they could have been worried because of PvP reasons. But these talent trees are supposed to cover PvP too, and most of the commonly used current PvP talent choices (or substitutes for them) are not in the tree - trinity included. So it’s fairly safe to add something like that right now.
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