We are in BETA now.
That changes things. Beta is for iteration… not starting from scratch. This trend has been the case for all Betas.
We have past the point of no return. Its time to move forward in the best way we can… not turn around and start over.
I saw that and was not quite sure what to make of it. I just assumed the 150% damage modifier was the correct one. You would otherwise likely kill yourself very fast if Death and Madness worked as it says! But then again, the damage backlash would be doing exactly what it should: making the player hesitate about spamming it every GCD.
I feel so bad for Druids. We got really lucky to get changes before them.
BETA, alpha, that doesn’t matter when your class has been neglected for the whole alpha phase. I rather have them ramp up for lost time and begin mixing things around to get a clear well put together tree going on. The tree is messy, too many things going on and too many points to spend. Too many talents that are not fun to get or are not needed. Some choices make the gameplaystyle Clunky. I feel like mindspike’s version of Cata adds more clunkiness than needed.
Alpha or beta, change is still on the table. Part of getting the class working is fixing this mess.
This new tree is GREAT, but still a messy AF with no clear direction.
The bottom talents are not as fun as the middle row. I find it falling off. Whiel in warlocks, the bottom talents are much more appealing and cazy. They need to consider this section more.
We are even missing a few talent points that could change everything enitrely.
And i already see a few placeholder talents that will probably be moved around, changed, or removed.
Yeah, druid and priest got the bad end of this.
But druid is coming up this week so lets see how that goes.
as for SWD, there is a 75% reduce dmg backlash that would help with the spam. SO it wouldn’t be bad. But it would be broken burst - 250% dmg modifer is so epic if it was true lol
Yes we are in BETA…
This is the iteration phase. The “vision” of what DF Shadow is going to be is now clearly seen and all actors are getting on board in accepting that “vision” whether the like it or not.
So it’s now best to make that “vision” the best one it can be… instead of scraping it and trying to create a new “vision” which is what you are wanting.
Regarding the “bad” talents?
Which ones do you think need to be outright removed?
You think your design is better cause you argued against mine. Not a problem, I thought mine was better as well but I saw the flaws in both.
You pointed out mine flaws and I agree to a certain extent, and I don’t really want another button so I don’t care sticking to it, I was just resolving your design in my view.
I pointed out your’s flaws and it makes perfect sense so I don’t see why you want to stick to it.
This second iteration of yours is another ability by itself, buffing DP, not related to echoing void.
Most of us loved the idea behind Idol of N’zoth so we want to make it more functional.
The problems are: having it not proc when mobs are alive, losing stacks when a mob dies.
So it could be like this:
Simple
Idol of N’zoth : damage dealt by SWP, VT or DP has a 20% chance make the target explode an echoing void, dealing X shadow damage to all nearby enemies.
Similar to what we have now
Idol of N’zoth : damage dealt by SWP, VT or DP has a 20% chance apply an echoing void.
Each time echoing void is applied, it has a chance to collapse, dealing X shadow damage to all nearby enemies and forcing echoing void on them to collapse.
What happens if the enemy dies before it “procs”?
What happens if the enemy dies before it “procs”?
If they auto proc on death, It can work.
Maybe… if it acted like Seed of Corruption where 1 explodes triggers all to explode and create a “cascade” of damage… that would be neat.
Edit:
Actually reading it again… I guess you kind of have that Seed of corruption effect.
Again, we had no alpha phase for a proper baseline setup of what the shadow should be. That doesn’t matter. The devs are now pressured to apply everything during the beta phase, and they have time to do this still.
I listed them before.
The bottom tier (20) plus talent tier is not as good as the middle tier. Interest falls when you enter the 20 tier.
Mind devourer 2 points for just increasing cast of Devour and no longer affects Mind blast. Doesn’t need to be removed, but needs to be adjusted and as well cost one point imo.
Derangement not a bad talent but the devour plague side of it is meh. I also do not think it current position is the best one to be in.
Piercing shadows – I like dmg modifier talents but this one can use a lot of works. Should be one point. They can also change it to a Flat 5% shadow dmg increase.
Dark Evangelism. I would argue the same thing I said about piercing shadows.
Whispers of the damned – I don’t think this talent is needed at all.
Unfurling darkness’ position is Horrible.
Can’t say anything about the left side until those tree talents are placed in-game.
Devouring plague needs more Focus on this tree, especially since it’s the First talent you pick up. So IMO shadow orbs should focus on Devour plague. I would also like this for a more Dot playstyle.
I find Cata’s Mindspike playstyle to be clunky in modern wow, but that’s just me. I"ll need to try to be 100 percent sure. But for now ill stay firmly with this.
Hallucinations. Just make it baseline, like plz.
And I repeat. Last-end capstones are not that amazing. Most of the tier 20 slots are meh in comparison to the middle talents. If i go onto my warlock, i can feel like the bottom talents will truly decide how i’ll play my lock. It just impacts them so much.
Sorry about my wording, wanted to keep the flavor, but I meant: the dots damage has 20% to make an explosion dealing damage to all nearby enemies. I kept the echoind void wording cause it is a good name. Maybe I should have said “make the target explode into an echoing void, dealing shadow damage to all nearby enemies”. Is that more understandable? English is not my native language.
Can be auto proc on death or jump to another target. The jump is better if the targets are moving, cause the auto proc would mean to damage nearby enemies near the body.
I asked what talents you think need to be removed.
Removing of talents and iteration on talents are 2 different things imo.
I see “some” talents that should just be removed outright. But most are either good as is or need some iteration. THATS what Beta is. A complete rework is massively DIFFERNT then what your suggesting. I think that’s the confusion here. We are in the BETA phase to Iterate on what we see. ALPHA is to start from the ground up and create the basic foundation. We have that now, its time to make adjustments, your suggestions are adjustments… that is BETA iteration.
Well, I am not having the best time trying to visualize what your suggesting.
All I can say is that if it acted like Seed of Corruption and causes a cascade of damage, that sounds fun and I would be interested to try it out.
I can’t reiterate enough… We didn’t have an alpha phase period.
The spec is still not even complete with missing talents.
What you consider to be beta phase and what I consider it to be is irrelevant. It’s ultimately up to the devs.
But I would argue leaving shadow in this state without proper foundation building (which we didn’t have cuze NO ALPHA phase for PRIEST and DRUIDS) is a bad move. I don’t need nor want another SL style of designing priest.
Get things working first, then tweak them after that.
I know what you ask. I gave you that and more.
All the “new” stuff (or at least most of it) is pointing to a Cata throwback. So with that in mind… THATS the vision that’s been established. So it best we consider that when we are giving feedback.
I would advise you to look at Cata Shadow videos to see how it worked.
It might give you a clearer vision and understanding of what’s happening with the tree and HOW Shadow played back then.
The first suggestion is: damage done by dots has 20% of exploding, dealing damage to all enemies nearby.
It doesn’t apply a debuff, just explode outright.
Second suggestion is basically seed of corruption, you are right. It has 20% chance of applying echoing void, and each time it is applied it can explode, and explosions trigger others.
The part of what happens if a mob dies when they have the debuff is: both auto proc on death or if the procs jumps to another target are good, but I prefer jumping to another to solve the problem of proccing at the dead body and the others mobs are moving.
Haven’t watched it yet. But I will now. Preach is good for explaining things.
Basic Rotation…
Dungeon playthrough…
This is something that I just think I would need to see myself to fully understand it is what I am getting at. Like what’s the jump distance… does it work in combat or out if is near a out of combat enemy etc. just things like that.
I mean not liking the cata’s iteration of Mindspike and shadow orb is feedback enough. I already stated it looks clunky in our modern design. Even with our mastery. And i want more emphasis on Devour plague/rot dmg. Shadoworbs Mop version can add to that.
What was MoP version?
Bringing this down
Hear hear. Playing MoP shadow was the most fun I’ve ever had playing wow. Return devouring plague’s missing damage!