Games change. Just because it worked one way in the past, that doesn’t mean it will always work exactly the same in the future.
This is plainly false for Fury warriors. Currently in Shadowlands, Execute is free and grants Rage on use. With talents, this will still be true in Dragonflight. Warriors get the advantage of being able to execute at 35% health (with talents). They also gain 20 rage. The downside is that there is a small cooldown and has to be used in melee range (but how is that a downside for a melee class?). With Pain and Death, as worded, Shadow Word: Death becomes an execute with no cooldown that can be used at 20% health, used at range, and grants 20 insanity (with Painbreaker’s Psalm). The trade off is that you are guaranteed to take damage using it. Hurting yourself at range is just as bad as standing in melee range getting hit by someone else. In fact in PvE, Warriors have more control on what they get hit by in melee range. Shadow Word: Death is always going to guarantee getting hurt.
I don’t see these as being unreasonable assumptions about the wording of Death and Madness. Even more so when looking at how a Warrior’s Execute works. You and Hpellipsis are just being rude.
Magnitude of the damage absolutely matters, but number of hits doesn’t except indirectly in that the longer the damage is drawn out while some healing is still coming in, the more that DR is favored (since it also multiplies effective healing).
Desperate prayer is worse than DR of the same effective health (though I don’t think way worse).
You are not the 1st one to bring this up. Even the so called “experts” are surprised just like you are… but those are the people that should know better and actually look into the class in full detail if they start spouting things to others that is simply not true.
That is where at least for me… I am coming from.
The big problem is that its clear the trees are still being developed and we still got NYI talents. That means to start making builds based on an ever moving target and then getting upset when either the tree gets updated or not understanding what’s going on and just making assumptions is what leads to upsetting posts like you and others have made.
I think it’s a stretch to say modern upgrades right now. Most things are just copy pastes. People’s complaint is that there hasn’t been any modernising yet.
But with the Idols and instant dots and SFP stuff… I see those as “modern” takes…
Only the SFP is questionable? Not sure how attractive that will be with all the SW:P and Psychic Link spreading single target damage around.
And the Idols… imo just need to go lol.
I don’t want a random proc that defines my gameplay lol.
The idols have definitely kind of gotten lost in the rebuild, they’re a cool idea. “Make a talent for each of the major old gods”, but all of them besides nzoth feel pretty bleh in terms of design.
I like procs that effect my gameplay… but not define it.
I don’t like a proc that summons something that does something that I have no control over.
I don’t like a proc that does AOE right after the mob packs died because it just happened to proc at THAT moment instead of earlier when it would be more helpful.
Idol of cthun is pretty much useless right now, that’s a problem in itself. But in it’s current state I wouldn’t even be close to calling it ‘defining’ in any context.
Yeah, I pointed out that 25% increase would be something about 20% DR. Though I was making math based on numbers cause yeah, my mind my nonsense. Lol
Exactly, but both are right too.
In fact I said Desperate Prayer and DR are virtually alike in most scenarios. Alongside with the actual DR of fade. My main point is we have both, and both are in a low CD, DP being 90s lowered by Angel’s Mercy and Fade being 30s lowered by the talent underneath it. Combined we are in a good spot for some situational use, like bosses big hits. In a void, where we are stipulating numbers alone, they have their issues, but in a real scenario they are strong.
We need control over the idols to make them interesting. Ysharaaj is the only one I’m considering taking simply because I have control over its impact.
By “defining” I mean… you can only pick so many capstone / endpoint talents. So you are “defining” your build with that choice. I mean its not a completely accurate but that’s how its perceived.
Has there been any new updates about how Idol of Y’Shaarj operates? I would like to know how much longer Shadowfiend lasts with the Violence emotional state.
Me too. Both Yogg’Saron and N’zoth are pretty flavorful, but Y’Shaarj being tied to an on use ability is pretty good. In fact I’m stipulating shadowfiend is going to be a 2min CD at some point with some crit, and paired with all the 2min CD we have. Of course taking account current iteration.
N’zoth’s problem is basically apparitions problem and is dealing damage based on attack power I believe.
Yogg’Saron needs testing after the talent is fixed.
Although both aren’t gameplay changes, just flavor to abilities we already use.
The problem I see is that you can have a situation where it procs on the LAST mob right before it died and does the AOE with NOTHING to AOE. Basically… a call back to Legion Shadow where while leveling you kill a mob and get forced to go into Voidform only to get tossed out by the time you get to next mob lol. So stupid.
Yogg’Saron has same problem as N’Zoth in that you can summon a thing after everything is dead or nearly dead… so its a waste.
Yogg is definitely the worst offender of all the idols. Nzoth and c’thun could be worked into something functional. The idea of nzoth stacks jumping to a new target or detonating on death combined with manual detonations via something like sw:p would make it playable. C’thun just needs guaranteed procs.
Or Devouring Plague would fit that “detonating” trigger better imo. Would make using DP feel real meaty and you have more control over that compared to SW:P as SW:P can be applied automatically with Misery etc.
Here is a rough draft of DP “detonating” (trigger) the idols.
Idol of Yogg-Saron
You can conjure up to 50 Shadowy Apparitions, casting Devouring Plague consumes your conjured Shadowy Apparitions and summons a Thing from Beyond that serves you for 20 sec. The Thing from Beyond blasts enemies for (25.1% of Spell power * conjured Shadowy Apparitions)
Idol of N’Zoth
Damage dealt by Shadow Word: Pain and Vampiric Touch has a 20% chance to apply Echoing Void. After accumulating 20 stacks, your next Devouring Plague cast collapses Echoing Void dealing Shadow damage to all nearby enemies until no stacks remain.
