I like a lot of the changes. I’d still like mindgames removed from the class tree and replaced with door of shadows or black hole. I think with inner focus opening up a reasonable path for shadow to holy word life, surge of light could switch places with lights inspiration to at least give shadow a buff to desperate prayer for going down the left side.
2 Likes
It’s clear that Blizzard want a 2 point node block in that area. That is why I didn’t connect Inner Focus or Spectral Guise to them. As if I had, it would have a way to bypass a bit and not sure if that would upset their balancing intent.
With Mind Games, pretty sure it’s set in stone to stay. It’s a very interesting ability for all 3 specs and in all situations.
The idea of changing heals/dmg outcome from a spell… basically manipulating one’s mind to your will is what’s happening. Very much shadow theme with mental stuff happening here.
Regarding Vampiric Embrace on the class tree. I would think it would be more popular to get an interrupt or in Priests case, making Silence a class ability over more potential healing cooldown via damage when your damage output is by design needing to be low since as Holy and Disc your primary role is Healing.
With VE, it being designed around damage makes it ideal for shadow, upset the damage and it becomes OP for shadow or if based on healing, it becomes crap for shadow. Only way to make it work it to have it work differently on a mechanical level for Holy and Disc compared to shadow. If your going that far, then it’s not VE anymore, it should be something new and then just placed in Either Holy and Disc spec tree just like how SFP is only in Shadows and disc spec tree because it’s not that useful for Holy in comparison.
Not to mention the fact that VE healing has been a primary unique feature for shadow since the beginning, I really think that should stay as a shadow only niche.
Regarding the capstones.
I think the theme checks out, you got a healing theme, a damage reducing via absorbing theme, a situational utility theme and a mind altering shadow damage theme.
They may need adjustments to fit the the
Themes on a balancing level.
With Void Shift, it’s major strength selling point is that it’s based on percentage and not numbers. So if you had to heal a tank with 1 million Hp when most people are struggling healing 100k… using Void Shift would instant heal that 1 million HP target to be the same % of HP you had. That is massive in how it bypasses numbers and heals based on percentage.
That’s exactly my thought. The current tree is MUCH better than what we’ve got before but Lightwell is still this one thing that I personally don’t want to see there. It’s still an underwhelming meme talent with all its problems.
Instead of Lightwell they should go for a more AoE healing alternative to Lightweaver. I would want to see a comeback of Cascade for example. Or make Holy Word: Sanctify a powerful AoE zone you can stand in just like it was back in Cata.
5% is nothing. 10-20% or something like that would be perfect and would finally give us some sort of personal survivability that we don’t have to keep for tanks.
Easiest solution would be to just transform Chastise to a kick instead of a stun with a simple talent.
2 Likes
That’s an idea. What about for disc though?
Not sure what disc can do, but I like the holy idea.
I haven’t really looked into Disc that much in the last years, I must confess. You got a point there, totally forgot about that. It makes things a lot more difficult.
Just stuffing a silence in there that every spec could pick would be a bit awkward, I guess. It would have to be on the top rows so that every spec can pick it, but that would just create the problem that Shadow then had… 2 free kicks+other CC in form of Fear. I can see that being slightly problematic.
Maybe there could be a talent that would sacrifice Psychic Scream, so it becomes a single silence instead of a mass CC. Holy and Disc could make a choice that suits the group comp and their playstyle and Shadow would also sacrifice at least something.
Not the perfect solution. It’s a difficult thing. Now I can see why they might’ve not even bothered to put something like that in the tree.
I think the Warlock is in a similar situation. Having the Fel Hunter spell lock available without having a pet. I haven’t been following that closely but at one time they have 2 spell locks now if they pick class talent and Fel Hunter. That is a problem imo lol. Maybe a solution for lock is if you pick talent and have Fel Hunter out, the cooldown is reduced by half so you can use it more often. But that won’t work for shadow unless shadow has silence baseline else no reason to spent 2 points for something we already have. And it won’t work if you get silence in class tree and last word in spec tree cause then you can get last word and avoid silence potentially and we back in a mess lol.
The thing is fade has a 30s cooldown, 20 with that talent. 5% is pretty much a good percentage, but of course I’d prefer 10% as the conduit, even if it stayed like before (the first 5seconds). It is powerful because it is available pretty often. Our major defense is Desperate Prayers, a 1:30 min CD that basically gives 20% dr. With angels mercy it would become even lower, probably 1min. With the fact you can use both together, both off of GCD, it is strong. Just not an immune
Which just shows how bad Desperate Prayer is as its not really a “defensive” its more of a recovery ability AFTER the damage has been done. It does not prevent any amount of damage. Best case is to use it BEFORE the massive incoming damage because your HP will be a bit higher.
Desperate prayer needs to be removed or put in class tree or changed to act more like a damage reduction compared to a damage recovery button.
2 Likes
No, in fact desperate prayer is better than DR CDs except for immunities, because you can use both ways. It is a heal and a increase to max health, thus virtually a DR. With fade it is better than what most classes get. Y’all are so much focused on “damage reduction” wording that forgets the amazing stuff we already have.
I can exemplify if you want.
Effective HP is really good for surviving singular big hits, we all know how powerful rallying cry is.
However, I do have to agree I’d much rather have 10% DR for 5 seconds vs 5% DR for 10 seconds on fade.
2 Likes
Lets say base HP is 200k
Taking in 100k damage at a 25% reduction results in only taking 25,000 reduced damage resulting in 75k damage taken.
Taking in 100k damage at a 10% reduction results in only taking 10,000 reduced damage resulting in 90k damage taken.
Taking 100k damage when your HP is increased by 25% resulting in 250,000 HP results in a net 100k damage taken.
So… even at a 25% HP increase, you still loose more HP then with a 10% damage reduction.
Unless I am missing something or calculated wrong lol.
100k hp for simplicity
100k HP
DP up to 125k HP (100%)
Take 50k damage
Down to 75k
DP Fades, back to 100k max hp
Still at 75k
DP is not temporary HP like Rallying Cry, it is increased max hp.
2 Likes
Unless I am still missing something, that result is still a net loss of MORE HP then 10% or even 5% damage reduced correct?
I was not sure about this, I am far from a computer to test. But if even it was temporary, it would be 20% DR, almost 25% with fade.
In your example you experienced 50% DR.
I can go further: you have 100k max HP, but you are at 20k, you take a 30k hit
With 25% DR you take 22.5k hit, dying
With Desperate Prayer you heal 25k, going up to 45k, go to 125k max health, then take 30k, remaining with 15k, not dying.
I mean… I flew up on my mount in ZM. Pressed prayer, fell, and my hp stayed the same after prayer fell off.
1 Like
Desperate Prayer is most definitely not better than dr. If it had a heal and dr it would be better in all cases than with the increased max health. A Dr protects you from every single hit for its duration whereas a max health increase only protects you until the extra health is gone.
Even if Desperate Prayer reduced a net more damage than a simple Damage Reduction percentage effect… The idea that I need to use an ability that HEALS me when potentially I am at full HP just so I can take a bigger hit to THEN want to heal but cant because I just used it… it just seems awkward as all heck.
Making it again, a BAD ability for damage reduction imo.
1 Like
Why? Just treat it like a different flavour of DR , because it is. Except it’s also usable reactively if you ever didn’t use it proactively.
3 Likes
If you have 100k, 25%dr makes you take up to 125k DMG until you die. If you increase your max health from 100k to 125k with DP, you still need 125k until you die.
Edit: after this threshold it makes sense, so you’re right if you need more than your max life during that window as the DR would make you survive more if you are receiving healing. Though I believe it is not the most cases and I said DP is virtually a DR
Both DR and Max health increase only remains some seconds, I believe from 10s to 20s depending on the ability.
The idea that you have an ability and can use in more than one way is completely normal in the game. DP serves as DR, you can choose to use it or not. If you die, don’t blame the ability for having multiple purposes you deny to use, it’s your fault. As couple of days ago someone pointed out that didn’t feel compelled to use PW Barrier only for themselves because the others in the dungeon were far away and wouldn’t benefit, but they would die if didn’t use. Same as using blizzard as frost mage for the slow not the damage. Or using Levitate to walk across the water and not to prevent fall death. Nevertheless you are still a priest and can use flash heal, shadowmend, pw shield, pots and whatever, worrying about DP to heal instead of saving your life is trolling as it’s basic.