Who needs to be redeemed, now?
But seriously, I do hope that the Dragonmaw Clan (and by extension, Wildhammer Clan) is made into an Allied Race. This would be a great time for that narrative to occur. I fell in love with the flying units of WarCraft II, and neither of them are truly represented in the playable roster.
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BAD Boy! Bad! Go to the corner of shame.
You can tell the difference between Dragonmaw and other orcs… how? By their cold indifference to the suffering of dragons?
That must be one big corner.
I had the void elves open a rift into interstellar space. We ran out of room couple years ago.
Depends on which of the myriad of portrayals you want to promote. For my part? I liked the initial experience with the Dragonmaw Clan in the Twilight Highlands leveling experience. They were wild (as the only Clan to not “lose” the Second War), but they were tempered by years of conflict as well. Once Zaela wrested control from Mor’ghor, I think they were on a pretty good path.
They even had a little start on a redemption arc when Zaela condemned the use of the Demon Chain to control black dragons.
And then she did a 180 on her character development so she could be a raid/dungeon boss for her apparent lover, Garrosh. She was fridged.
But the Dragonmaw Clan was nevertheless still represented as a part of the Horde during Legion, with Gorfax representing them at the prestige ceremony.
Didn’t they do that with orc and dwarf customisations?
I recall having to race change this alt to maghar because all regular orc skin tones were variations of green. 
They let you paint a Bronzebeard like a Wildhammer, true.
But Dragonmaw aren’t playable even by half-measure.
Even then… Dragonmaw Orcs are, by definition, not Mag’har. At best, you’re combining aspects of the Shattered Hand and Blackrock Clan to make a facsimile that sort of looks like a Dragonmaw Orc at a distance and doesn’t fit into the lore regardless.
The same way you redeem the rest of the Orc species who fyi perpetuated numerous acts of slaughter and brutality across two planets that include; rape, mass murder, torture, defilement, and planet-wide destruction and de-vegetation. Then after they were given numerous chances to reform relapsed again and again into their murderous tendencies throughout various expansions.
You just……actually portray them trying to be better people.
No one is asking for retcons, I’m asking for constructive storytelling that depicts how this clan of former war criminals are attempting to reform and trying to be better people.
Y’know, what Orcs should be in the first place.
Which doesn’t detract from my sentiment as I mentioned nothing about domesticating or taming anything.
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They’re part of the Horde as of Cataclysm… at least the ones in the Twilight Highlands are… They’re not given a separate seat at Horde councils, just folded into the general orc population. Then again, neither do the Wildhammers or Darkl Irons either, they just share a seat with the Ironforge Dwarves.
Why yes of course, I’m all for minor races/subfactions getting attention, and the Dragonmaw are awesome
They can get guilt-tripped by Dragons for all I care though. Sounds fair
We have seen that though and everytime as you put it…
So what’s the point, why keep beating the same horse to death? Dragonmaw are far too gone, they were also one the major supporters of Garrosh. Better off just write this clan off like Kingdom of Alterac.
The Mag’har are fresh out of alternate timeline with no horrifying crimes against the dragons, let them take charge perhaps?
My point was that after multiple chances and the scale of the crimes especially with this specific clan there needs to be some really impressive redeeming act or handwaving of crimes to make this situation one of cooperative and positive relationship.
I guess think of it this way. What do the Orcs and Forsaken need to do for the Night Elves and Tyrande so that in the space of one expansion Tyrande would give Night Elf babies to the Horde to raise so they can become Night Elf riders.
I can’t imagine what it takes from us to go from A to B in this scenario.
Sorry this wording kind of sounded like they would approach a wild dragon with carrots and saddle rather than chains and sticks. I misunderstood your meaning it seems.
But that’s the thing right, why should the Kingdom of Alterac be written off when it’s so interesting ? It’s nice that not all Human nations reacted the same way in the face of the Horde’s invasion, and they’re nowhere near irredeemable. They were a small Kingdom with comparatively little power, they took a different path that led them to destruction and marginalization, and now they’re cool gangsterous fallen nobles.
They’re also douchebags. Which is okay. I am among those who don’t believe that every action in WoW should get an adequate, proportionate moral retribution. It is unpaid debts and unresolved grudges that make the best plots
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I meant write them off as a faction that will join us. For them to remain interesting I think they should keep their distance from the playable or neutral factions. Its good to have an enemy to fight that is not all evil.
I agree with you, and if there is a world revamp I want to see their kingdom restored but as a dungeon or hostile leveling area rather than just another Alliance/Horde town where we go to farm boars and bear pelts.
Defias are really, morally grey too, justified even. But it makes them fun enemy to fight, Maybe one or two NPCs could temporarily go neutral for a select few missions like Vanessa hiring us to kill some Stormwind Nobles. But I don’t want the Defias as a good boy neutral faction.
Maybe the Dragonmaw could be an old enemy returned trying to renew their old dragon riding legacy and the new horde puts a stop to them. Thereby redeeming the old Horde in some way that this new one does things differently. But the dragonmaw themselves? ugh… thats tough man.
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To be fair to the Dragonmaw Clan, it has also been utterly splintered. Wetlands Dragonmaw Clan, Blackrock Mountain Dragonmaw Clan, Outland Dragonmaw Clan, Grim Batol Dragonmaw Clan, Twilight Highlands Dragonmaw Clan (those who followed Garrosh and those who did not), and the Nelghor-shomash that preceded them all… you may as well fault the Night Elves for the sins of the Blood Elves.
I do think there is a redeemable core, here. And I think the way to do it is to focus on those in the Twilight Highlands who particpated in overthrowing Mor’ghor, but didn’t follow the villain-batted Zaela into Garrosh’s servitude.
Night Elves and Bloods Elves are seperated by thousands of years.
All the Dragonmaw from wetlands to grimbatol and Twilight highlands were the same orcs that did all those things to the Reds.
The ones in Blackrock are left overs from the second war no?
I guess I just disagree then, Like the analogy I made, the Dragonmaw basically are going to be the Orcs/Forsaken and they have to convince the Night Elves and their leader Tyrande to give up their babies to them to raise and later ride.
Its a really tall order for people with that much bad credit.
Have the dragonmaw done anything for the red dragons since Day of Dragon?
The ones in the Wetlands and Twilight Highlands and splinter groups from the original core Grim Batol group. The ones in Blackrock Mountain were there because they were pre-retcon, back when the Dragonmaw Clan was still a new clan created by the Blackrock from the most elite Shamans to undertake the task of taming dragons once Zuluhed figured out what could be done with the Demon Soul.
We have different continuities entirely at play here, and a few plotholes, like Overlord Mor’ghor illogically winding up in the Twilight Highlands for no discernable reason.
No, and that’s the problem. And the narrative potential. I fully expect them to be overlooked, like they were during WoD, but there are interesting stories to be told, here. I think we got one NPC at the Wyrmrest Temple saying that the Horde has a lot of make up for due to the actions of the Dragonmaw Clan… but it was just never followed up on. And that’s a shame.
Zuluhed and Nekros are dead, but the debt we owe to the reds is far from repaid.
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Yes.
Also, the grey/purple skintone, glowing amber eyes, and the draconic brands or tattoos on their forearms. They are certainly more different than Dark Iron were from the core Dwarves, or the Highmountain from core Tauren, or Lightforged from core Draenie.
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