They directly nerfed another classic item, MQG - and even commented about why they weren’t going to ‘break’ chickens to restore their power. Why are you dissembling on the point regarding what Blizzards intentions are in regards to this?
The use of vanilla items to trivialize mechanics or improve kill times in TBCC raids/pvp are against the developers intent for the release and ongoing maintenance of this game.
Please explain why Tonk doesn’t fall under that condition, that Blizzard has already declared their intent on.
Yes mqg was nerfed in pvp only, why do you think that was???
None of you seem to understand why tonks are being used.
I used a total of 4 call pet in BT this week’s and I believe 1-2 of them are used to avoid pet piling when skipping trash.
I can’t tell how many tonks we’re used but call pet is used when a tonk is used so it’s safe to say I used up to 4 since I used “call pet” 4 times but like I said some of it was used to call pet back out after skipping trash but let’s say I used 4 tonks.
Tonks aren’t being used to “ignore” mechanics, tonking it’s a DPS LOSS, it takes 2 gcd’s to tonk a pet and call it.
Pet passive takes 0 GCDs so if I tonk it’s because my pet is going to be 1 shot or the path back to me is blocked by mechanics.
For example council say the tank has the boss in consecrate and my pet is standing inside it, I’d normally just pet passive him back to me while I kept shooting but I see theres a blizzard or flamestrike between me and the pet meaning my pet will literally die because I’m bringing him out of the consecrate to come back to me.
This is actually why tonks are being used, hunters atleast good hunters aren’t in there spamming 150 tonks a raid…they are literally a DPS loss.
You want something fixed you should be asking for blizzard to fix interactions like that and fix mechanics towards pet like they do later.
You aren’t for good changes tho, just petty changes.
Has anyone been banned for using steam tonks? Anyone? Has Blizzard said anything about steam tonks at all? No? Then calling it an exploit is flat out wrong. Exploiting is cheating, and cheating is a bannable offense. Stop calling things something they aren’t. YOU don’t get to make the rules.
And enough with the “git gud” BS. You obviously have no idea how pets OR steam tonks work. Using tonks is a dps loss. A DPS LOSS. The only reason hunters use it at all is due to crappy pet AI and pathing.
But since you’re obviously the champion of keeping everything fair and on a level playing field, feel free to head on over to the bug report forums and nag Blizzard about the Lurker bug, or the bug that causes pets to spawn with low health when you dismount, or the dozens of other hunter bugs. Your input is greatly appreciated.
Thank you for making the point I’ve been making over and over: WCL isn’t a “tool” and it isn’t used as such. It’s a mini game. I don’t pay $15 a month to play WCL or any other smarmy little operation that slides its way into WoW. WCL should make their own game so you can go play that.
Any deaf person will tell you no. To qualify as sound, vibrations must travel to the auditory nerve which in turns carries an electrical signal to the brain. If there’s no one there to interpret sound waves, then of course there’s no sound. Just vibrations.
It’s both. Why do you think it has to be one or the other?
And it’s fine that you feel that way, and grats if you are able to find a guild that fits what you want and doesn’t care about logs. They are out there.
But most successful raiding guilds run logs and play the minigame, and that’s a big reason why they are successful, because they have players that care about their performance. And being in one of those guilds means playing the game by WCL’s rules.
I don’t believe that tonking your pet on illidan, or council as an example, is a DPS loss compared to having to not only re-buff your pet yourself, but have your paladins re-buff your pet after it dies. There may be instances where it’s a DPS loss, but the longer fights get, the more valuable tonk is.
There’s no chance that 2 GCD’s are worth more than those buffs being saved.
I’m for changes that fix abused mechanics that were never the intention of the developers, clever use of game mechanics etc with a previous expansion’s random items.
I don’t mind chicken being fixed, I just think that with consistency in mind that things like Tonk should also be fixed. You can disagree with me all you want, but you cannot in good faith suggest that Tonk was implemented so that you could save the buffs on your pet in TBC or TBCC raids, or was an intended byproduct of this toy for raids.
Do you disagree with the purpose to which Tonk was created? Do you think that it was meant for raiding?
Its a DPS GAIN over having to cast revive pet. Have a paladin cast blessings on it again. Beleiving that using a tonk to abuse the pet mechanic is a dps loss of 2 GCD is laughable.
As how classic works nothing pre bc should work in tbc raids. Chickens are broken because it is a flat % increase not a rating increase. Tonks are broken because you instantly dismiss your pet and can resummon it quickly at full health with little downtime.
You think people rebuff pets if they die??? What raid you in?
Using a tonk is a dps loss over bringing him back, you could argue that if the tonk made him not die its not a loss.
I cant say its purpose as i didnt develop the game, you could argue that we have been using tonks since Phase 1, if blizzard or WCL didnt approve of it why havent they changed it yet?
Chickens were widely used starting in phase 2 and nerfed 3 weeks into Phase 3, yet tonks are still unchanged?
Would you consider that Blizzard knowing about it and not changing it means they dont see anything wrong with it? They could easily make it so you cant tonk in combat and that would be the end and a rather simple fix, yet they havent, why not?
We’re well beyond the point of realizing WCL isn’t used as a tool. Unless, of course, you’re one of those players that doesn’t know when your buffs need refreshed, or how to use a swing timer, or how to play your class. “It’s a tool,” is just something people say to make themselves feel better.
Arguing this with a parse worshiper is totally pointless, though. It’s like trying to talk sense into someone who hangs on every word of a streamer, follows them from server to server, gives them money and watches their live feed 24/7.
And again, we’ve already concluded that it isn’t about how well you do, but how well you look. No one thinking clearly would call that playing “good.” Using chickens could increase your dps, but you won’t use them. Now, supposedly, using Mr. Pinchy invalidates logs (I have not personally confirmed this).
WCL invalidated logs using traces of Silithyst and soul revival and several other things that pretty much anyone can use. Items that improve your performance. If WCL invalidated logs using food buffs you’d stop doing that, too. How gestapo do they have to get before people stop paying attention to their “rules”?
Intentionally playing so your performance is worse doesn’t make a “good” guild. Quite the opposite. It’s absurd to claim otherwise. But yeah, there’s that whole “if a tree falls in the forest” thing and how would you and your crew prove to the world how awesome you are without it? Here’s the thing, though, not as many people as you think care or even notice you or your guild.
WCL caters to insecure, adolescent males and there’s plenty of those to go around.
No hunter is going to stop during a council fight to cast revive pet. The majority of boss fights are like that. Imagine stopping to cast revive pet on Illidan.
Like elixir of the mongoose? FAP? Scarab brooch? Elixir of demonslaying? And on and on . . .
You’d better get with WCL, that list is pretty long.
Imagine some streamer, say, Asmongold, inserting his own little mini game of “competency” into WoW. Imagine this mini game has its own set of rules which very often have nothing to do with measuring how good you are, and in some cases even contradict the very rules of WoW itself. Now imagine everyone drooling all over themselves “competing” for high rankings in this “competition.” Imagine being told you don’t like “competition” because you point out how absolutely stupid the whole thing is.
Damage meters have been in the game since the beginning. I think Blizzard put a combat log in the game for that reason. WCL is just an expansion of that, with an online component.
And yes, since the beginning, there have been players like you who didn’t like them. Competition inevitably creates winners and losers. And losers don’t like being publicly displayed as losers. But for the winners, it’s fun. That’s just how competition works.
Some of it is skill
some of it is circumstance (a prefered dps group, ideal raid comp)
some of it is “want to” (Chicken stacking, MCing mobs for cheeky debuffs, healing through avoidable dmg)
with all this in mind the greatest performance delta exists for #1 Fury Warriors #2 Combat Rogues #3 Feral Druids (its actually feral #2 but ill give my reasons for this) #4 Ret Paladins #5 BM Hunters
Then there are some factors across the board that skew heavy, Most Ret Paladins and Rogues are not in a “prefered melee group” virtually every Feral Druid is in a “prefered melee group” just like enhance the prefered being: 2x BM, 1x Fury, 1x Enhance, 1x Feral.
While BM is certainly the hardest ranged to play no doubt, it is certainly no the most difficult overall, atleast in terms of performance delta’s. Though this will change abit in Bm hunters favor after the 15th as Melee Delta should shrink for all due to chickens being removed (the delta caused because of no chickens, 1-2 chickens and 5 chickens will go away)
If you’re going to make the claim that 2 GCD’s are worse than reviving your pet and having your pet rebuffed is a DPS loss compared to 2 GCD’s on a tonk/summon, then I don’t know why you would bother having a pet out at all.
I play a ret paladin and use pally power, yes I rebuff pets that are resummoned mid-fight, costing me a GCD. The other 2 paladins in my raid also rebuff pets when they die and are revived costing us GCDs.
You’re literally making stuff up here. How is the loss of your pet and not tonking an increase in your DPS?
Because you can’t say for sure that the developers didn’t intend for steam tonk to be used for this purpose, you’re just going to base your entire argument on the incredibly slim chance that the use was intended, versus their established precedent of removing ways of bypassing encounter design?
I absolutely do not think that Blizzard is EAGER to make changes to things in TBCC. I think they are waiting for the community to provide input and decide what their priorities are by way of changes, anywhere from nerfing vanilla items, ‘fixing’ their interactions, or removing them from working in certain instances/scenarios.
You see this as folks clamoring for ‘revenge’ for chickens being removed, other people see it as maintaining consistency across decisions. I can understand that this would negatively affect your gameplay, and for that I’m sorry - but in the end it’s not up to you to decide what blizzards ‘standards’ are around consistency in raid design, and legacy item usage to negate mechanics via any method they deem unintended.
Why are you here posting about tonks? Why not make a thread fixing pet interactions with bosses and mechanics??
You aren’t doing that because your chicken was nerfed, and I’m sorry no one is going to realistically say tonks are as bad as a 4 minute lust, they just aren’t even in the same universe.
I’ll repeat this again because I guess you didn’t read it.
You see this as folks clamoring for ‘revenge’ for chickens being removed, other people see it as maintaining consistency across decisions. I can understand that this would negatively affect your gameplay, and for that I’m sorry - but in the end it’s not up to you to decide what blizzards ‘standards’ are around consistency in raid design, and legacy item usage to negate mechanics via any method they deem unintended.
You also made a sweeping authoritative statement that using tonks is a DPS loss, but when called to task to prove your ‘fact’ and provided with counter evidence you changed the subject.
I’m going to assume that I’ve moved your cheese on this one, that you are conceding that you were in error, and realigned your views to favor tonks as being a net increase in dps to both the hunter and the raid as a whole, reducing the overall kill time of a boss, and therefore raising all DPS. That being the case, please refer to the community request to maintain consistency across ‘fixes’ and ‘nerfs’ that follow the original encounter design intentions of TBC as they pertain to TBCC.