Ahh, that makes sense. Thank you for the clarification. 
Thatâs just not true at all.
Only takes 4 if a group of three are pre-made. Originally in Wrath the 3 could initiate the kick. The change was made to require the 4th all the way back in Wrath. Kiyoko if itâs not true then what has everyone been talking about with the first boss dropping a BIS item and people trying to get kicked after the first boss so they didnât get the debuff lol? Itâs what has prompted this entire debate. I think those pink beanies are hurting your brain cells
This is not a solution and it simply rewards bad actors who abuse the system and make everyoneâs lives more miserable.
And whatâs more painful is sure, you can vote kick out that tank or healer who doesnât want to do the dungeon they got put into. But not only does the VTK system have an internal cooldown which triggers if you use it too much, but you have no idea if the tank/healer that replaces the person you kicked is going to run the dungeon, or theyâre going to demand to be kicked as well.
So DPS who already waited 15-20 minutes for that dungeon to pop, may have to wait an additional 20 minutes or more at the entrance while they wait for new tanks/healers to cycle in. Or worse, they learn when trying to kick the tank/healer that all of them have triggered the internal cooldown, so thereâs no way for them to kick that player.
And in that scenario (where all the team members have triggered the internal cooldown) the only solution is to leave the group, take the deserter debuff themselves, wait for that to drop and then requeue, wait another 15-20 minutes and pray to all things holy that their next group doesnât have another bad actor in it.
And for what? So some player who got kicked and thought it was unfair can queue again instantly? No, just no. We donât need to make the game worse when the kicked players can find something else to do for the duration of the debuff.
I just finished leveling 15+ alts to level 80 exclusively through TW. During all of that, there was only a single time when someone tried to vote kick, and it failed.
Reason to kick: Tank was upset that someone kept putting a blue icon above his head, so he tried to vote kick the healer because he assumed they were one the one doing it. The group declined, he kept whining but we ultimately finished the run and no one was kicked.
I honestly canât tell if the forums is exaggerating how frequently they get kicked, or if Iâve just been incredibly lucky these past 20 years.
The kick penalty was introduced JUST for Sacbrood farming in heroic dungeons - which was only a problem for like, two weeks before M+ was released.
It was a ridiculous overcorrection (because of forum QQ, I mean good on Blizz for listening I guess) for a problem that would have resolved itself.
And in every instance I was in, we waited <60s for a replacement to clear the dungeon if someone left (this might have happened once or twice). It wasnât a problem, except for fragile egos.
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The whole sacbrood farming thing is the straw that broke the camels back, but letâs be clear, it was happening before this expansion too. I remember the same crap happening in Shadowlands for the Theatre of Pain dungeon where tanks would rush to Xav the Unfallen (which was almost always the second boss) and if Xav didnât drop the legendary memory they wanted, theyâd bail on the group.
Then the group would be forced to wait, a new tank would come in, note that Xav was already dead and then leave as well.
Thatâs fine, but the current solution has - in my opinion - inexcusable collateral damage which is what OP was getting at.
It was a poorly thought out, knee-jerk bandaid fix for Sacbrood. Which was only a problem for two weeks.
If you join a group, you should do the entire dungeon.
Not the boss that only drops stuff for you before you bail. Because then that group has to wait for a replacement (especially if the tank or healer bailed) and hope the replacement doesnât also bail because the boss they wanted was already dead.
Players getting kicked are getting the penalty, thatâs the discussion my guy.
Iâm happy for there to be another solution that encourages finishing dungeons, but this isnât it.
Okay? That has nothing to do with the sacbrood change, and I already explained above why removing the penalty for people that get kicked is not a solution and will only make things worse.
So what are your thoughts on making the penalty for leaving - 15 minutes?
If not that, then what about an initial 15 minute timer that escalates (and caps) at 30 minutes for those who leave/are kicked?
Even in SL there was a timer, if you killed the first boss, you got no Debuff, but you still couldnât queue again until 10-15? minutes from when you entered elapsed, it had an internal cooldown.
You all abusing it forced their hand.
Donât like it? tough.
It does not seem like it, you are, in fact, dwelling on it.
You got kicked, and rather than think about what you did for 30 minutes or go do something else, log an alt, do a BG (The PVE and BG debuffs are not the same, you can still queue the opposite), you threw your toys out of the pram, stamped your feet, and went running to Daddy Blizzard.
Here, have a great song by TOOL, called Hush, because like them I canât say what I want to.
My opinion on the system is that itâs currently fine.
If you get kicked from a group for no reason (although given the penchant people have for lying on forums I almost always doubt the âno reasonâ argument) then that sucks, but you can do something else for 30 minutes while you wait for the debuff to wear off.
World quests, delves, old raid/dungeon farming for collectibles etc. And if youâre levelling and you donât have access to those, go to the expansion of your choice, do some quests from NPCs for loot and XP while the debuff ticks down. You will survive the 30 minute penalty, then you can queue again.
We got folks here acting as if they got stabbed in the heart because they got kicked and theyâre going to die if they canât queue for another dungeon. Absolute melodrama.
I also think itâs wrong to downplay peopleâs strong reactions to a 30-minute timer.
Thirty minutes is a significant amount of time, and while there are other activities to do in the game during that period, thatâs not the main issue. Especially if someone was unfairly kicked from a dungeon, a 30-minute timeout feels excessively long.
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I did that dungeon several times and never saw such a thing happen
Congrats, just because you didnât see it happen, doesnât mean it wasnât happening.
If your trying to kill whats left of the game.
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People donât get kicked for âno reasonâ. When someone says that what they are really saying is that they got kicked for an unjust reason. 3 people deciding that want to kick a random person just to be funny is a reason. But itâs not just and the deserter debuff is not fair to the victim. I donât think anybody is really making the argument that they got kicked for âno reasonâ, they are making the argument that the reason was BS and so is getting Dungeon Deserter for a BS reason.
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soâŚtypical blizzard, then. 
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